The source of these endless unnecessary disagreements is:
Appendix C: Foreign flag exceptions .... look rules
Some exceptions are maybe understandable, some completely illogical.
Only one rule is needed, and then the discussion is over.
If a player plays for a national team ( WL, WL960, EL and other continental leagues) in which that city is, is not important which flag is, each flag is a domestic flag. (also an international tag)
The player must play for that country, not just to be a member.
I just accepted a member into Canberra who lives in Canberra with the International flag. And in Australia that is perfectly acceptable. In this league it isn’t. And I don’t like asking them to change their flags to the Australian flag as @Borgqueen said. In this country it is considered OFFENSIVE and even RACIST to ask people to right to choose or deny their heritage.
Check Canberra’s latest member.
And this league should recognise that. This foreign flag rule doesn’t suit Australian clubs.
You put administrators of our clubs in a bad position.
(I am currently helping in Canberra as they don’t have enough admin help as mates help each other)
I agree with @Kookaburrra. Talking to a person, I'm sorry, mate, you can't take part in the game for your club, because you have a flag of the wrong color. Or sorry, mate, but you have to change the flag to the correct color, it sounds insulting and even it looks like a kind of racism. Australia is a very multicultural and multinational country, and it’s considered normal if a person, following a sense of patriotism, remains faithful to the flag of the country with which he came. No one has the right to make him change his choice. Australia is a very correct country, and there it is not customary to impose on another person that he would wear the flag of Australia, only because he chose this country as his country of residence. And it is truly admirable 👍🌿
@kookaburrra and @ivan_m5:
If you present a request in a rude and sharp way, the response will be, as you said, a negative one and your members could felt offended. But, I think you have a lot to win if you are trying to use a more diplomatic way to explain this rule, rather than avoid presenting it. And you should not hide behind your multicultural fortune, but you have to use it wisely. Treat this as an opportunity and not the other way around.
Just think a little bit on this...
Yes you can't ask them to change flag, but your team have over 200 Australian member. In my team player from Iraq his fide rating 2015 live in my city. I didn't ask him to change his flag but I told all members about this rule.
Dear @Emadeddin-Abaid, compare Iraq, which is one of the places where human civilization was born, the place where the first ancient cities of Ur, Uruk and Babylon appeared, whose history as a state begins in the third millennium BC with relatively young Australia history as a state begins more than a hundred years ago with the formation of the Australian Union and whose population of 60 percent consists of first and second generation immigrants is not entirely correct.
@kookaburrra and @ivan_m5:
If you present a request in a rude and sharp way, the response will be, as you said, a negative one and your members could felt offended. But, I think you have a lot to win if you are trying to use a more diplomatic way to explain this rule, rather than avoid presenting it. And you should not hide behind your multicultural fortune, but you have to use it wisely. Treat this as an opportunity and not the other way around.
Just think a little bit on this...
I don’t think I have ever asked in a rude and sharp way. I am just asking and putting ideas out there. And ideas are always good and free speech is also always a good thing.
At least half of Australians currently alive were not born here. That is very true. They are Australian in every way. We are all Australian. I like the way Australians are multicultural and inclusive. It’s a great thing.
Kookaburrra, If you, any suggestion and any opinion that you do not like, considered OFFENSIVE and even RACIST,
I think then ... you have a big problem (with yourself)
Precisely to avoid further unnecessary discussions, I think my proposal is acceptable and fair. I repeat ...
If a player plays for a national team ( WL, WL960, EL and other continental leagues) in which that city is, is not important which flag is, each flag is a domestic flag. (also an international tag)
The player must play for that country, not just to be a member.
The rule of 25% of foreign flags (really foreign) is good, it should stay. Maybe 20%?
I have no problem with myself. I am Australian. I know Australia. I live here.
Read the better and answer my suggestion. If you have a coherent answer.
We do have some members in our city teams who aren’t in Team Australia although they are encouraged to join. And vice versa.
Australia is a great free democratic country.
And it is obvious other countries don’t have this issue and aren’t as multicultural.
I am an advocate for my country and our city clubs and that’s all I know about. I don’t tell you what your country is like as I don’t know. I know Australia.
I don’t think it is the percentage that is the problem. Me being awake at 3am is impractical and the rule was unclear and even the league directors here have admitted it is unclear and needs revision. Wouldn’t mind other clubs having a turn at having their matches starting at that ungodly hour.
I and Adelaide abide by their decision.
Somehow the discussion is turning into Nationality and a Country focus when this is about the Cities. Most or all major cities around the world now have huge percentages of different nationalities and people are migrating all over the world more and more for a better life. Our major cities globally provide this. We are city teams, not National teams and people can play for whatever national side they like but also play for a city club too that has nothing to do with a country chess team.
The flag is just meant to be your location, and has nothing to do with your nationality.
Somehow the discussion is turning into Nationality and a Country focus when this is about the Cities. Most or all major cities around the world now have huge percentages of different nationalities and people are migrating all over the world more and more for a better life. Our major cities globally provide this. We are city teams, not National teams and people can play for whatever national side they like but also play for a city club too that has nothing to do with a country chess team.
The flag is just meant to be your location, and has nothing to do with your nationality.
Agreed !!!
I am in full support of lifting or abolishing the rule on the percentage of Foreign Flags in World City League matches for next season.
1) It does not prove which city you are located in but only which country you are in.
2) The competition is crippled partly because of this rule as matches are smaller in general because of this rule.
3) It is more continual unnecessary work for League Directors and all admins concerned to maintain this rule which does nothing to prove which city you are in but only which country.
4) It consistently is an uncomfortable discussion with club members to ask them to change their flag or tell them they cannot play or take them out.
5) Every match is different and sometimes a member can play and sometime they can't depending on the particular line-up of a match. It is causing confusion and insecurity to all our club members with foreign flags as to when can they have permission to play or when they will be booted from a match.
(No one like rejection and there is never a stable environment for them to simply play for the city they want to play for.) This rule must stop please.
I could say more but there is enough points already.
As explained in #62, abolishing the 25% foreign flag limit is not an option.
I am in full support of lifting or abolishing the rule on the percentage of Foreign Flags in World City League matches for next season.
1) It does not prove which city you are located in but only which country you are in.
2) The competition is crippled partly because of this rule as matches are smaller in general because of this rule.
3) It is more continual unnecessary work for League Directors and all admins concerned to maintain this rule which does nothing to prove which city you are in but only which country.
4) It consistently is an uncomfortable discussion with club members to ask them to change their flag or tell them they cannot play or take them out.
5) Every match is different and sometimes a member can play and sometime they can't depending on the particular line-up of a match. It is causing confusion and insecurity to all our club members with foreign flags as to when can they have permission to play or when they will be booted from a match.
(No one like rejection and there is never a stable environment for them to simply play for the city they want to play for.) This rule must stop please.
I could say more but there is enough points already.
I agree.
I think that people who manage this league do not understand the culture of a multicultural country. We have had Australian admin from many Australian clubs speaking here. And I can’t do anything about their lack of understanding on this issue. We are outnumbered. And just a small country. We do have 8 clubs who are within this league which is a significant number and maybe just Australian clubs should get an exemption from this rule. Is that a compromise. We are ethical and good clubs and have no intention of abusing this rule and inviting the whole world into our clubs. And have 8 clubs of all different sizes representing our major cities. And the possibility of even more in the future as we grow the Team Australia clubs to represent more Australian cities.
Australia is unique in this respect. USA is not as multicultural. I can think no where else where over 50% of our population have been born overseas. And as I am in 2 crossboard chess clubs I can assure you in the chess playing population it is much more likely to have been not born here.
We do understand the Australian situation, but we must design rules that fit (as well as possible) for 80 teams around the whole world. We still believe that 25% is a reasonable compromise.
Granting exemptions for teams with admins that promise to be ethical doesn't sound feasible to me.
The limit of 25% of foreign flags must remain.
Otherwise, WCL will become a new TMCL (tournament of international teams, where there are no restrictions) Then some cities will get "friends" from all over the world.
I am in agreement that no partiality or exceptions for particular city teams should be employed.
Most major cities around the world now have huge populations of different National backgrounds calling their new cities home. A rule change must be universal for all teams and of course not to be implemented until next season.
~For cities you should be able to wave any flag of your choosing and be able to play freely and be embraced by the city you choose that you have a connection with. It mimics the truth of our major cities that we are now multicultural.
~Strangely enough, the National teams and World League structure should be the ones having the policy that if you play for a national team then you should represent their countries flag with pride in matches. Currently there is no Foreign Flag rule for the World League.. so why should a City League have one.
I am in full support of lifting or abolishing the rule on the percentage of Foreign Flags in World City League matches for next season.
1) It does not prove which city you are located in but only which country you are in.
2) The competition is crippled partly because of this rule as matches are smaller in general because of this rule.
3) It is more continual unnecessary work for League Directors and all admins concerned to maintain this rule which does nothing to prove which city you are in but only which country.
4) It consistently is an uncomfortable discussion with club members to ask them to change their flag or tell them they cannot play or take them out.
5) Every match is different and sometimes a member can play and sometime they can't depending on the particular line-up of a match. It is causing confusion and insecurity to all our club members with foreign flags as to when can they have permission to play or when they will be booted from a match.
(No one like rejection and there is never a stable environment for them to simply play for the city they want to play for.) This rule must stop please.
I could say more but there is enough points already.
@Utopiandreams, I agree with your every word. Indeed, in every city there are both citizens of the country and visitors from other countries. In each city, the number of visitors and the number of local residents are different. Imagine that a checkpoint with a barrier was placed in front of each city. And if there were suddenly more than 25% of visitors, the checkpoint stopped letting in new people, arguing that the quota for visitors people for this city are exhausted. Don't you think this rule is absurd?
https://www.chess.com/club/matches/team-australia-adelaide-sa/970690/games