What explanation is given for Satan's desire to fall

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Alouette_Du_Matin

I'm not that well-versed in the angel part of the Bible, so please correct any inaccuracies. If Satan was originally an angel, and angels are supposed to be pure and good, where did he get the desire for power that led to his fall? I checked the Bible for every reference to Satan, but he only appears seven times, or something. How did he become such an important figure in Christianity when he's mentioned so little?

J-R-R-Tolkien

i actually have no definite answer, but one that seems to me to be realistic is this: satan was the choir-master of God, and he had certain songs that he performed - he was unable to compose new ones, as creativity, some of God's authority, and the ability to invent was a gift from God to mankind, hence "created in the image of God," that is we were given, as part of His image, the ability to think creatively and invent. satan came to the garden and was jealous of that. when he persuaded man to eat of the fruit, he took that gift of God to man unto himself, essentially stealing it in the bargain. Christ was sent to give us this gift again (specifically the power part of it, satan most likely didn't get the creativity but only the power) and thus we have the power of God through prayer. this was not explained well, but that is a general idea of what might have happened.

Alouette_Du_Matin

Where did Satan get the desire to sin? God created the angels to be perfect, right? Also, if he's omniscient, why would he even create Satan in the first place, if he knew that he'd sin, tempt Eve and ruin God's perfect world? Here is a video that asks it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECPCLhe3UQo Here's one that tries to answer it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxeWX6enYA I've got questions about these, but that's for later.

nomolos2

I am afraid I don't have a definite answer to the question of how Satan fell. But as I said before, God allowed evil so that he could show the fullness of his goodness

Alouette_Du_Matin

Thanks for taking the time to answer, by the way. But isn't that a bit megalomaniacal? if a human caused a world crisis for the purpose of resolving it, wouldn't that be considered a bit evil?

David-Begley

I think that Satan simply rebelled my be he whanted to be the king of all

Alouette_Du_Matin

But why did he want that?

nomolos2
Alouette_Du_Matin wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to answer, by the way. But isn't that a bit megalomaniacal? if a human caused a world crisis for the purpose of resolving it, wouldn't that be considered a bit evil?

if a human did somthing like that, yes, it would be evil. but God is not man, he made man and unlike man he has the right to do whatever pleases him with humanity and every thing else

Alouette_Du_Matin

Why does there have to be a double standard? Isn't morality objective in Christianity?

nomolos2

Sorry, i don't understand what your question is asking

J-R-R-Tolkien
Alouette_Du_Matin wrote:

Why does there have to be a double standard? Isn't morality objective in Christianity?

there is some slight objectiveness, as seen in romans when paul says for him to eat certain things is not a sin yet for someone who is weak in faith it is (or at the very least appears to be sin to them). however, there is a moral standard that does not shift, such as whether murder is right or not. there is no discussion in the bible over whether it is right or not, there is simply a "thou shalt not." this is how it is with everything except what is not stated to be sin. if something is not inherently sinful, and yet doing it strains someone's conscience, then it is "sinful," but only because it is a wrong done against that person's mind, causing that person to potentially stumble. rephrased, it would be a "stumbling block," not a sin.

Alouette_Du_Matin

So, is God held to that standard? eg: thou shalt not kill.

nomolos2

first, the word kill is here used describe murder, for the most simple reading of scripture will tell you that it is not always wrong to kill. second, murder is the act of taking a human life,THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU, and since all life belongs to God, (including your own, thence why suicide is still murder) is is not murder for God to take a life. just as he author of a book alone has the right to cast it in to the fire, so the author of life alone has the right to burn it up as well if that be his will.

Alouette_Du_Matin

I still don't understand why he'd want to, though. It takes an especially bad human to want to destroy what they've created.

nomolos2

Death (human death at very least, we have already had that discussion on another forum) was a punishment for man disobeying him, and all men disobey him, therefore all men DISSERVE death, it is only by God's great mercy that death is postponed and not brought about upon our firat disobedience.

Imagine that you made a robot. And you gave it everything it could ever want or need. And to repay you, it continually disobeyed to the point that it killed your own son. Though like every man made analogy it has flaws, this example can clearly show that it it wouldn't take an evil man to want to destroy the robot, infact, that is what justice would demand.

Death is only the beginning of eternal life. And those who repented and were chosen by God in this life will go on to eternal bliss, and those who continue to mock the things of God and never turn away from there sins will enter in to eternal punishment for there disobedience.

Alouette_Du_Matin

But the people who killed Jesus are dead. Why punish the son for the sins of the father? And how do all men disobey him?

nomolos2

I can not emedietly call to mind any verses pertaining to your first question, if someone else here can It would be most helpful. As for the second question God's commandments are found all through the Bible and with just a quick glance at the people around us and at ourselves and it is pretty clear that no one can go through life without disobeying God. And just incase there is still uncertainty as to whether someone out there can, the Bible gives us passages like "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "non are righteous, no not one" to remove all doubt.

Alouette_Du_Matin

True, the commandments are often disobeyed, especially the "name in vain" one. However, the major ones (no murder, no adultery) are generally more obeyed. The question is, what level of sin results in damnation? It appears to be any at all, but isn't that a bit harsh? What if you repent, sincerely, but not in a praying way?

nomolos2

one sin -any sin- is enough to make a man at odds with God. all Adam did was eat a fruit he wasn't supposed to. and just like no one can be perfect and not sin, neither is there someone who " has only sinned once" or twice, or three times, ect. men sin every day of there lives and most of the time never even recognize it. and that being "harsh" is again trying to make God fit our standards of "nice" and "harsh". man is not the arbiter of what is harsh, God is.

no matter how sincere or truly sorry someone is, the sin must be paid for. and that is either done by Jesus on the cross, or by man in hell, regardless of how the trespasser feels about what they did. should a murderer not go to prison just because he is honestly and sincerely repentful? no, justice must be served.

Alouette_Du_Matin

Do Christians still believe in Purgatory? I think that's an excellent solution for the "too harsh" issue. How can a murderer and someone who swore once receive the same punishment - eternal torture? That's not justice. With purgatory, however, justice could be delivered.