why does God let bad things happen onearth

So, God causes suffering to make him look good? And this is allowed because he made our souls?

God "allowed" suffering so that he may be glorified, and those who do not glorify him will suffer eternally. i can see where your problem is. you still feel like it is selfish of God to allow evil to exist for the sake of his own pleasure. but you must understand that that is the only reason that he made us in the first place. feelings are often deceiving but the word of God never is. God has the full power and right to wipe humanity from existence if he so chose.

I think I see my problem. I've been trying to understand how God's behavior in the Bible fit in with standard beliefs about him, where it might be that those beliefs were just wrong. eg: He's always perfectly kind (by human standards).

I would agree with your observation. The true God of the Bible can be very different from what mainstream media would often have you believe. I also respect that you actually tried to find your error and were not ashamed to admit it. That is more them most people can do these days

I think it's always important to find out what's true, rather than justify what you believe. Problem is, most people's egos are tied up in even their weakest opinions.

Satan didn't directly cause harm to animals. By rebelling against God, this universe and so nature as well was corrupted, which brought suffering into this world. In the theistic worldview spiritual beings exist, it would then make sense that spiritual beings, who are part of creation, would corrupt the physical creation too.

Why would God allow Satan to sin and thereby bring suffering into this world? I find the answer to be pretty simple: because He gave angels free will. That actually makes more sense than a God who creates beings that have no other choice but to worship Him.

I'm not saying the problem of natural evil is not a strong argument for naturalism, especially Alex O'Connor's example with a deer having its foot trapped under a tree, which can be very convincing emotionally. But I would also mention two things:

1. Suffering or natural evil cannot really be evil in any way and do not lead to any moral or metaphysical conclusions in atheism. In atheism, "natural evil" is nothing more than something that we perceive as uncomfortable, but in no way has it a certain objective moral value. There are no objective moral values on atheism, and atheist philosophers recognize this.

2. While the problem of natural evil can point to a rather cruel world with no omnipotent and all good creator, you must not forget the order of the universe. It's easier to explain the problem of evil in a theistic worldview than it is to explain the 'problem' of fine tuning in an atheistic worldview, much easier!

One more thing I'd like to add is that the example - of having a new car which was then destroyed by a guy who then got you a Ferrari as a gift - that you gave does not really work in this problem. Animals don't have wills and wishes, they can't not want you to do something. Their instincts can make them want to avoid a certain situation or event, but they cannot be self-aware of their wishes and be aware of what they think. Also, many philosophers, like William Lane Craig (and C.S. Lewis also had a similar argument) argue that animals cannot actually suffer. They can feel pain but they are not aware of it in such a way that they can organize it that it transforms into a form of suffering that would be in any moral way relevant or even possible.

"you still feel like it is selfish of God to allow evil to exist for the sake of his own pleasure. but you must understand that that is the only reason that he made us in the first place."

I disagree with this. God didn't make us for His own pleasure, He made us for... us, for our own joy in Him. He was not lonely before He created any creatures and He didn't need creatures to cheer Him up. He also certainly didn't allow evil just so that He removes it and then is the hero of the story. Jesus was the image of God on earth, and He was the opposite of an egocentric hero who creates problems so He can solve them!

Whoever does not worship God will suffer eternally not because God got angry at them that they didn't give Him the attention He wanted and told them "Get this!" throwing them in hell, but because that's what the ones who didn't worship Him chose. God is a just and at the same time 'respectful' God. By letting people who don't worship Him suffer eternally, He 1. does justice and 2. respects the choices of those who didn't worship Him.

If those who do not live according to God's will and don't have their sins paid for (by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross) do not receive a punishment for their crimes against God's law, then how can a just God give the same afterlife to both Hitler and Mother Theresa? Would that be fair? It wouldn't and also, since God is holy, He could not let unholy, guilty people, live in His presence.

And since no one can fully respect God's law on their own, you need someone to take your punishment for you. But God showed His love by sending His own Son that He takes the punishment for humans so they don't have to. Does this seem like a God that creates evil so He can come across as the hero? I wouldn't say so. If He truly did that, He would've found other ways to do it than humble Himself in the worst ways possible, and be humbled and tortured by His own creation. So whoever wishes to be with God in eternity has to accept Jesus as their not only Saviour, but also Lord. That would cleanse them of their guilt and sin.

Now, think about it: if someone chooses to reject the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and therefore the possibility to be in eternity with God, would God still force that person to go to Heaven? No. So if someone says "I know better, I don't need your presence in my life" and does not accept Jesus, God, as their Lord, then God says "Ok, you know better" and does not force them to be in His presence for all of eternity which would be heaven, but rather, sends them to hell.

So by sending people to hell, God fulfills both justice and respect of the choices of humans.

So what does it mean to glorify or to worship then? I actually used to struggle with this too, and used to think that if God wants to be worshipped, He is nothing more than a selfish tyran who wants attention. But this couldn't be further from the truth. To glorify God means this: to exalt Him and humble yourself. And what does this mean? It means nothing more than to put yourself and God in the right place. To place God in the right place in your life and the way you relate to Him. It means to accept that He is so much higher than you and it is a greater form of thanking for what He is and what He's done. And it also makes sense: if He is your creator and is good, then it makes sense that He knows what's best for you and will do it, but only if He is given the right place in the human's heart, the right place being the highest one, in which the human humbles HImself and tells God "You know better than me" and glorifies Him.

So then glorifying God is not for God's pleasure, but for our own good. God created us to worship Him, but not for His selfish desires, but for us, that we rejoice completely in Him and find the joy that He wants to give us through Him.

To worship God means to put God in the right place in your heart. To put God in the right place in your heart means to accept that He knows best what's good for you and to let Him work out life. To let Him do that means to have the most joyous and most fulfilling life that you could have!!

Which is why He created us in the first place, to find our joy in Him.

"We often read of the fury of God; as in “According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay fury to his adversaries. (Isaiah 59:18) ” So “For behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (Isaiah 66:15)” And in many other places. So, we read of “the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of "Almighty God. (Rev. 19:15)” The words are exceeding terrible. If it had only been said, “the wrath of God,” the words would have implied that which is infinitely dreadful: but it is “the fierceness and wrath of God.” The fury of God! The fierceness of Jehovah! Oh, how dreadful that must be! Who can utter or conceive what such expressions carry in them! But it is also “the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” As though there would be a very great manifestation of his almighty power in what the fierceness of his wrath should inflict, as though omnipotence should be as it were enraged, and exerted, as men are wont to exert their strength in the fierceness of their wrath. Oh! then, what will be the consequence! What will become of the poor worm that shall suffer it! Whose hands can be strong? And whose heart can endure? To what a dreadful, inexpressible, inconceivable depth of misery must the poor creature be sunk who shall be the subject of this!" -exert from "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" by Jonathan Edwards

Does this seem like God is merely peacefully and 'respectfully' honoring man's decision? No indeed, rather the Scripture uses words like: wrath, anger, fury, flames, fire, and fierceness.

And though this is a man made sermon and can therefore be flawed,the verses he uses (Isaiah 59:18 Isaiah 66:15 Rev. 19:15) are not.

So when you say something like "Whoever does not worship God will suffer eternally not because God got angry at them that they didn't give Him the attention He wanted"(and deserves, btw). Is seems pretty contrary to what the Bible says, especially the "not because God got angry" part, for it seems very clear that God is indeed VERY angry.

On your first statement, I mostly agree. God was not lonely or need cheering up, and that Jesus was the image of God on earth. But I must ask this, you said "He made us for... us, for our own joy in him." Is a since this could be true, But why does God care if man enjoys him or not? Why would God make us just to bring us joy? What's the point? The answer to these is simple: God enjoys it when we enjoy him. That is why he made us

I think you misunderstood my argument regarding this. I do not deny that God is wrathful towards those who rebel against Him and reject Him (which is every human who doesn't repent). By "respecting" I do not mean being respectful in the sense that God is polite and has manners, I mean that He does not force people who rejected Him into Heaven. No one is forced into heaven.

Justice then happens through the wrath of God. That doesn't make it less just, only because God is angry.

"Whoever does not worship God will suffer eternally not because God got angry at them that they didn't give Him the attention He wanted." Regarding this, I agree with what you said, but I didn't formulate the sentence very clearly so it was misunderstood. What I meant was that they don't go to Heaven because of God's anger which comes from the need of attention, but from the anger which demands justice. The emphasis was on "they didn't give Him the attention He wanted", meaning that God is not like a small child who needs the attention and gets angry if He doesn't get it. He is angry because people are rebelling against Him and thereby also corrupting His good creation, so His anger is one out of justice, not lack of attention. 
But yes, I agree with what you are saying. I just didn't express myself correctly.

"But why does God care if man enjoys him or not? Why would God make us just to bring us joy? What's the point? The answer to these is simple: God enjoys it when we enjoy him. That is why he made us" Well, yes. He cares if we enjoy Him or not because as a maximally great being, His love is maximal, so He cares about us.

"22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" -Roman's 9:22-24

I think this does a pretty good job of answering the question

coltey black,and nomolos know that that was one of the best explanations ever

Thanks!

I think the best solution for the problem of evil, not just natural evil (natural evil is for example animal suffering), is Alvin Plantinga's free will defense.

For those who don't know, this is the problem of evil, and I would consider it the strongest argument against theism:

If God is supremely good, then he has the desire to eliminate evil.

If God is omnipotent, then he is able to eliminate evil.

If God is omniscient, then he knows that evil exists and knows how to eliminate it.

Therefore, if God exists, and is supremely good, omnipotent and omniscient, then evil does not exist.

Evil exists.

Therefore, a supremely good, omnipotent and omniscient God does not exist.

classic

The problem is with the "he has the desire to eliminate evil" part.

Why so?

The argument can easily be resolved. Assume that God is either not omnibenevolent, omnipotent or omniscient. I'd reject omnibenevolent first, considering his actions in the Bible and the general "condemning anyone who disagrees with him to eternal torture."

If God had the desire to remove all evil he would have done it by now, but -as I have already said, several times- he allows evil so the he may be glorified all the more

God is maximally great definitionally, and those characteristics are great-making and cannot be removed. If you do remove one, you would not be talking about God anymore.

The "condemning anyone who disagrees with Him to eternal torture" making Him not be omnibenevolent is completely untrue. The problem is not "disagreeing" with Him, it's rebelling against Him and thereby making the rest of the creation suffer. The eternal torture is out of justice, not malevolence.

You don't call a judge who sends someone - who stole something or murdered someone - to prison evil, do you? You say the judge made the right choice, the criminal needs to be punished. But when God does it, it's evil? No, not at all.

The thing is, God is a just judge, but also a loving one. The whole Bible is pointing towards Jesus, God in human form. Jesus came on earth to pay the punishment for humans, so that we don't have to. Imagine this: a judge punishes a criminal and gives the criminal a fine of many, many dollars, or sentences him to many years in prison, being a fair and just judge by doing this. But then, he steps down from his role as leader, and tells the criminal that he has the money to pay the fine for the criminal and is willing to do so, if the criminal accepts this gift.

God is the judge. He is just, and yes, he condemns people to eternal torture if they sin, but that's exactly what makes Him just. But at the same time, He wants to be with His creation, so He did the work to get the money to pay the fine for the criminals. For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. He sent Jesus to die and suffer so that humans don't have to, and whoever accepts this gift will not get the punishment they deserve.

See how God is both just and loving at the same time? If He didn't punish those who sinned, He would not be a just God, and whoever is not just is not omnibenevolent! And had He not sent His Son for us to take the punishment for humans, He wouldn't have been loving!

So Him actually punishing people by sending them to hell is proof of his omnibenevolence, not the other way around.

I think He allows it because He gave creatures free will, so does Alvin Plantinga.

Why would evil glorify God?

Evil its self does not glorify God, but If there was no evil, God could never show his compassion, mercy, forgiveness, grace, justice, patience, ect. and God definitely receives glory from these. if man was perfect, he would DESERVE all the good things God would give him.