Chess empire QC vs House of Staunton, am I expecting too much?

UPDATE:

I ended up ordering a set through Staunton Castle (SC) which is owned and run by Mandeep. The first set I received had generally high quality levels of polish/finishing but there were issues with the knights. One had googly eyes and 2 were leaners. Mandeep was willing to replace these knights only if I ordered through him again, which I decided to give a shot. I ended up receiving a beautiful new 4"- Elite set from him as well as perfect replacement knights for my first set (small club collectors). The end quality was hands down far superior to The Chess Empire's offerings to me as well as The House of Chess's offerings (not to be confused with ChessHouse). I'm adding photos to this post for future reference.

ORIGINAL POST:

Hi all,

I'm hoping to hear some feedback and perhaps see photos of people's experiences ordering through The Chess Empire and House of Staunton. Some time ago I placed an order for a 3" Imperial set from the Chess Empire, I wasn't happy with my knights and bishops, as they were nowhere close to the general shape or quality of the photos. After about 20 emails Rishi sent me replacements, of which the knights were better but still flawed, and the bishops were identical to the originals. I emailed him again and he said nope, that's it.  I ended up ordering another set through him to get replacement knights and bishops for my first set, since he will only offer one replacement per order. The bishops were again off and the knights were back to the wrong profile with grain tear out and asymmetric carving. I feel a bit fed up, as though I've been duped. I see some positive reviews for TCE on here, but maybe other people have had better experiences? Do you actually get what you order when you go through HOS? Or is it much of the same, pieces are similar to photos but not high quality and not at all the same? I've attached photos for reference. 

 

Thanks for any info you have.

This sloppy knockoff attempt is of a Knight style designed and copyrighted by Frank Camaratta (while with House of Staunton) in 1996. It is used along with the copyrighted Craftsman style (mohawk) Knight sets in the Sinquefield Cup/US Rapid Blitz/9LX tournaments. 

If not purchased from HoS (or a site that is affiliated with HoS), it's a knockoff and you're on your own. Buying directly from HoS is double the price. There's no sugar coating that. Some people will say the knockoff quality is close enough for the price and be delighted. Some people will say it's unacceptable at any price. 

The last HoS 20% off coupon was around the week of February 14. If you're patient another 15-20% off sale will inevitably pop up.

House of Staunton Customer Support: (256) 858-8070 Monday through Friday 9:00 A.M. until 5:00 P.M. (Central)

Good luck!

@Ibuildchess - I’m happy to start and I’m sure you’ll get many and varied opinions.

One caveat - I have not purchased from TCE and have only one set for HoS.
The service I received from HoS was exemplary - the pieces were wonderful too - albeit one knight had an issue but it was replaced incredibly fast, with no hassle or cost my end. If or when I want another set, HoS will be in the frame as a potential vendor.

On your issue, you are not expecting too much. The bishop is no where near the Ad photo - the piece you first received did not have that beautifully deep mitre. On the knight - again - I imagine you wanted that slender snout and well formed/balanced curve through the neck … again what you received was not that. If I had received those - I too would have been frustrated and asked for returns and replacements.

You’re probably aware through this forum that purchasing sets over the past 18 months - became a lottery - whether it be suppliers managing demand, COVID, whatever …. there are many and varied stories - some good and some not. Yours seems to fit the latter and that is a shame - I hope you receive better service and pieces in future.

Thanks for the info!

 

Upon closer inspection yes indeed it appears that they tried to spoof a HOS set named "Imperial Collector" with a 4.4" king. However they were advertising it with a 3" king. What they sent me is closest to the HOS "Library Imperial" which has a 3" king.

 

The shame is that the pawns, rooks, queens and kings are all otherwise really well done, but those bishops just don't have the profile I wanted and the knight quality isn't there. If HOS can offer good quality knights with their sets I will be happy to order through them. I didn't think I was asking for perfection, just an accurate carving that is symmetrical with no grain tear out. TCE just doesn't appear to be able to offer that with this set.

 

I did pay through PayPal, so I have dispute coverage for another month. 

 

Thanks again!

@powderdigit

Thanks for the detailed response and the justification of my feelings here. I was ready to give up but you've given me the gumption to file a return and wait for HOS to get the set I want back in stock!

 

I have read that there have been struggles when ordering sets since the Queen's Gambit came out followed by COVID, there was unprecedented demand followed by supply issues. I've had a plastic set for years and I've wanted to upgrade myself to wood pieces with a board I've built out of Purpleheart and fiddleback maple. If HOS can offer me quality, then the extra cash is worth it.

 

Thanks again

First of Ibuildchess no you are not , This is very poor shoddy work  by TCE , My own experiences with TCE has been very good / only gripe was the after sale import tax with fed Ex & vat on top ! which was my fault as did not read the small print .

  Look's  like there master knight carver has gone AWOL ,

 

 

 

 

As others have said, what you received was very poor. I would be very unhappy to receive what you did. Also, this policy of only one replacement is a bad SOP for a business. It is not your fault they sent a knight that looks nothing like their website photos. If the knight has changed then TCE should change their photos to reflect what the product looks like now. It is also not your fault the replacement pieces they sent were not acceptable. This is a poor way to do business.

I have ordered many sets from wood sets from HoS including the Player Series, 3.25” Grandmaster series, Fischer-Spassky in ebony, 2.875” Zagreb, and 3.75” Collectors. What I received always looked like the website photos. There were never any deviations in the design whatsoever. However, there were many quality issues. I think the only sets that did not have an issue were the Zagreb and the Players Series. I didn’t know to check back then so I just assumed the pieces were fine. All others had at least 1 piece with an issue. Issues included dings, marks, burned rubber, scratches, color variation, incorrectly installed weights, etc. In all cases, all I needed to do was send an email to HoS with photos and an explanation of my request. Then poof replacement pieces showed up within a week or two. In some cases, the replacement pieces were also not acceptable and required additional replacement. HoS always replaced the pieces no matter how many times it took to get it right. They never once complained about me being too picky or gave me the line about handmade products not being perfect. They always came through.

There was only one case where HoS required me to send the pieces back. It was with the Fischer-Spassky ebony pieces. I guess they felt the issue with the pieces were minor enough that they might be able to use them as replacement pieces for others. Other than that, I never had to send pieces back.

All of the sets I purchased from HoS was prior to the Queens Gamit. Since QG, policies, QC, designs, etc have changed. Many especially international customers have complained about HoS not being helpful in their replacement requests, so maybe my experience no longer matches the reality.

You do realize that you are comparing the same craftsmanship

The Chess Empire makes sets for House of Staunton. House of Staunton isn't a chess set maker.

Even House of Staunton is misleading with their pictures shown on their website too. Their Dubrovnik 3.625 line in Anjan/Boxwood and black lacquered version are not the same when it comes to the knights.

mr ChrysAguila and me fell for it.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/review-house-of-staunton-1960-fischer-dubrovnik-chessmen#comment-64784771

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/please-recommend-a-chess-set?page=1#comment-67747945

At the very least TCE offered you to send a replacement even though that one was also botched. HoS didn't even bother to ask replacement from their supplier.

Definitely dispute the charges on both sets. Nothing personal. It's business. You're in the hole for what, $500? That's not something to ignore. And this has been going on for 20+ emails? Game over. Get your money back through Paypal. If the manufacturer wants the sets back let them contact you with instructions and a prepaid shipping label. Good luck! 

No one knows for certain, what manufacturer(s) makes the sets for House of Staunton, but those Knights look like they were rejected by Quality Control and the manufacturer is trying to sell them on the side, direct to consumers instead of scrapping them.  Or they are outright knockoffs of HoS copyrighted designs. 

“Also, this policy of only one replacement is a bad SOP for a business.“

As stated by  @MCH818, the above policy is not only bad SOP, but would prohibit me from ever purchasing from such a company. Period, end of report. It just opens the door to poor customer service. Shameful. There are still good companies to deal with, however i would say this isn’t one of them. No, I’m not a collector but when and if i ever decide to buy again, it will not with this company. The company’s poor work and service is not the buyer’s fault and therefore shouldn’t be punished by a “one replacement only” policy. What is this, the elementary school lunch line? 

Absolutely, I know HOS contracts out manufacturing. However with the middlemen dealers there is usually an element of QC, and since they're such big customers the manufacturers will always make them what they order, otherwise they find another manufacturer.

 

My question was more about experiences purchasing through these companies, what you received vs advertised and what their customer service polices were in regards to replacements.

Thank you for the detailed and informative response. I have heard that in recent years the QC and the customer service have both gone downhill at HOS. I guess my question is this: where can I order a decent 3" King set for $250 USD? 

I can recommend Staunton Castle for their 3" set, that's where I get mine in rosewood. I see they only have ebony now.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/review-of-staunton-castle-library-size-chess-set#comment-58720372

https://stauntoncastle.com/products/small-club-collector-series-3-premium-staunton-chess-set?_pos=1&_sid=bb1555964&_ss=r

I have nothing to add other than the fact that I am extremely disappointed by TCE for this. They should be ashamed.

Thank you! That set looks lovely. Actually it also looks identical to the one TCE is selling on their site as the "Executive Collector's" set too! I will look into it. 

My assumption is that there are numerous manufacturers- small and large - that are carving pieces for numerous retailers (and/or people who are asking manufacturers to make specific reproductions
or custom styles to certain exacting specifications) … and that some manufacturers are retailers too. Confused yet?

Let me continue to confuse while I try to clarify … 😉

Further, a manufacturer makes numerous versions or refinements for a retailer until the retailer is happy that a set meets their exact specifications - to this end … on the way to a final products - numerous versions of a set are made.

The retailer is then very specific on the quality control of the final set … and thus, there are heaps of pieces that do not meet exacting standards - they are not second’s per se - just that the retailer is not prepared to buy/sell them in relation to their customised requirements.

These variations of pieces/sets - not up to specification - are then made and sold by the manufacturer or other retailers - as similar designs but under a different product names and sometimes it is difficult to see the difference from one set to another from different websites…. Which, in turn, raises various legal and ethical questions that we don’t have time for here.

Now are have I totally confused … everyone. 🤔

And so… there are sets that are marketed by different companies that are very similar (but slightly cheaper or discounted) but only few sets that are perfect to exacting standards and rarely discounted….

and so, people like me buy stuff from time to time that I think is beautiful but to a trained eye is not quite right … but still lovely. And/or we buy stuff that is flawless and enjoy those sets too.

Oh and then there’s sets on clearance- where people are just moving excess stock …

and let’s not forget true ‘seconds’ that are damaged and/or imperfect and sold at deeper discounts again.

I am not sure what all this means … and as previously noted I am purely my working assumption informed by looking at various websites and forums etc…

… and therefore, I go into any purchase with my eyes wide open and my fingers crossed and hopefully ….I receive quality product - that is not cracked, chipped or shoddily carved with wonky eyes or unfinished manes or unbalanced from piece to piece…

… and fortunately, to date, anytime I have had an issue it has been resolved with replacements and good service.

Sadly, it seems from feedback on this forum, that quality product and service is still a bit of a lottery (albeit there are lots of good stories too).

I suppose that those lucky enough to have local stores where product can be viewed benefit from being able to see and feel the product prior to purchase.

Thanks for getting to the end of a long ramble … it just where my head is at and perhaps misinformed by my own ignorance to the exact state of affairs.

+1 on the SC Small Collectors set recommended by Michael. I don’t own this set but I find it highly desirable. Michael seems to like it a lot.

I have had several issues with House of Staunton's sets before. The last wooden set I bought from them was the Ebonized Boxwood Modern Series. Had one black Pawn with the head slightly bigger than the rest. I tend to buy from Direst sellers like The Chess Empire, Royal Chess Mall, and Chess Bazaar. The only reason for me to buy retail is when I can't get it from a Direct seller. The B.H, Wood set is one I've been eyeing for quite some time now but I'm still waiting on the price to lower a bit more.