Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

 I'll kindly disagree. The ONLY Jaques sets that are worth any money are the Ivory and Ebony sets. The wood sets that were sold were to be moderately within the budgets of the average man; indeed Jaque's standardization of the various pieces is what popularized the game of chess. The fact that only a handful or so of Jaque's wood pieces can be found tells you what happened to many of them. It is the rare exception if you can find a Jaque's wood set that does not show extreme wear, cracks, etc. Age + CONDITION is what makes a set valuable. If you want to spend $2,000 on a beat up but genuine Jaque's set, please be my guest. For my money I'd rather pay a fraction of the price and get a exacting replica made by either HoS or The Official Staunton Chess Company, both companies produce exquisite sets that pick up where Jaques left off; both produce modern sets that in and of themselves are works of art, that Jaques never dreamed of designing. The HoS picked on of Jaque's early designs and added a few minor improvements which resulted in their Collector's Series Luxury sets, which has indeed got the look and feel of a Jaques set, and offered in Boxwood and various woods other than Ebony. Say what you may sets from both these companies are going to become collectible sets tomorrow just as sets produced by Jaques in the mid to late 1800's are collectible today.

 There are a few errors in Mr Katz above post.

Jaques sold actively to chess clubs of the day, particularly in London but elsewhere of course. This is one reason why the surviving sets are in such bad condition. for example, a club would buy a number of sets and use them for visiting team games. They would also be used when visiting (chess) dignitaries came to the club to give a simul (this may be one reason why the pieces are so often mixed from different but similar sets, the other being unscrupulous dealers.) Eventually the sets got damaged and were put back for use as 'friendly' game sets, new Jaques sets being bought as needed. I went to the Clapham club in London in about 1989 and they still had a complement of old Jaques sets, busted and damaged, but used for rapid transit games and so on. This I think accounts for the majority of badly damaged sets. If one can find a set which was used in a private dwelling it is very likely to be in much better shape, like my recently acquired 1853 Jaques which has very little wear or damage.

When a firm is lucky enough to produce a ground shaking new design which becomes iconic and world renowned, albeit designed out of house and from already established shapes (as we proved in our article on the subject, The design of the Staunton chessmen) then those original will likely become very collectable. Mere copies will not. These modern copies sold as Mr Katz correctly says, by the various importers and drop shop boys in large numbers are not incidentally made from European boxwood (buxus sempervirens) or Macassar ebony as the original Jaques were. The weights are not applied in the same way and many designs claiming to be Jaques copies and 'faithful' reproductions have added differences such as the aforementioned undercut bases. (see my previous post).

$2000 gets you a well restored Jaques, genuine and pleasing, in a way that a modern clone can never be.

bonjour! i agree with you sir mr Dewy. Same with as you very poor reprodction jacques set , did you use makkasir ebony or european buxus ? no no you may not have as clear it is, your very poor name on very poor reproduction of jacques shape design and material used per se . look at your own self firstly Dewy sir 

 

 Do I detect an element of personal criticism from the cheese eating surrender monkey contingent?

sure Mr dewy sir You say many thing but all knowing your very poor terrible Jacques reproduction is worse on marketplace brie is my fouvitire cheese but odour as you

Sounded like criticism Alan, but difficult to tell.

!!

I think this obsession with trying to achieve the perfect Jaques 1849 reproduction chess set is slightly unhealthy and effectively futile.

As has been discussed previously, there is no single design that can be called "The" 1849 Jaques style, as there is even a large divergence of shape and form among knights, bishops, and rooks in the same set let alone within consecutive sets, and in addition more than one carver was used to create these first batches of sets and so large variations are inevitable and part and parcel of this design's history. 

Even if you attempt to make an exact copy of a single antique 1849 set you won't be able to reproduce the subtle patina that these sets posses, nor the aged baize bases, the century of use that creates inimitable wear, the idiosyncrasies of shape and design among the same pieces of the same set, nor incorporate the exact types of boxwood and ebony wood species that are likely now unavailable.

It's time to make do with the very good reproductions that are currently available and to simply appreciate the beauty and charm that these older sets possess, and which is ultimately unreproducible.

Good raise issues I agree you

 

merci 

 Well you seem to know your cheeses Mr frog. It is true that offering a set on the market leaves one open to facile criticism. My goal was to lower the prices of good copies and in that I was successful. (He says modestly)

However we Brits did not just throw up a white flag and welcome the Hun into our country and that is a stain on your national character you can never erase. God save the Queen. (All 4 of them if Frank has his way)

 

Please let's not take this super long thread with many classic pictures and send it to the trash. Please refrain from personal remarks and name calling.   

I agree with Mike. This is the only thread I follow and I have enjoyed over the years the many knowledgeable and interesting comments from many passionate contributors, Alan being one of those at the forefront. We may not always agree but it is regrettable when members are goaded into making personal comments which, as has happened in the past, threatens to discourage them from continuing to make the interesting contributions which I and many others value. It is the season of goodwill and entente cordiale after all.

Yes I agree but at least the last post by Mr cheese head was very funny.

I will desist.

 

Again I respectfully disagree with you. First if there "millions" of replicas (not true since even if there were, the price for a good quality set would come way down, but the really good quality reproductions still cost $500+  and that is a limiting factor, but I digress), then Jaques accomplished his objective of bring chess to the masses with a standardized design. But high quality wood reproductions are still an expensive undertaking and thus limiting. What there are millions of is PLASTIC sets, which can be had for less than $10, and even a high quality set such as HoS Marshall Plastic set can be had for less than $30 -- 1/15 to 1/25 of a high quality wood reproduction.

 

And among wood chess sets we have a wide range of sets. Consider this: Back when Jaques was making wood sets, he used essentially two woods: Ebony and Boxwood. Today we have sets that are faithful reproductions of some of Jaques early sets that yes, are offered in Boxwood and Ebony, but also in a wide variety of other woods -- rosewood, blood rosewood, etc., etc., etc. Some of these woods are more costly than some of the highest grade Ebonies; and some cheaper allowing someone who does not have a lot of money to still own an extremely high quality Chess set.

 Some of the chess sets available today put most of Jaques early sets to shame. Compared to some of the sets offered today by HoS and The Official Staunton Chess Company, and one or two other makers make those early Jaques sets look, shall I say, crude?? Take a look at any of the "Artisan" sets make by HoS and compare them to any Jaques set you want. Jaques deserves credit for two things: 1) Coming up with a standard design that could take a beating. That his basic design for all chess pieces are still almost essentially unchanged almost 200 years later is testament to that. 2) His simplified design and his willingness to work in materials other than straight ivory, such as wood, brought the cost down so that the common man could afford a chess set that previously could only be afforded by royalty -- hence chess' other name, 'The Royal Game' -- this popularizing the game.  With the advent of Plastic, anyone now can afford to own a chess set, not just the wealthy, and wealth alone does not determine how good a player you are -- some poor kid with a hand-me-down cheap plastic set can clean the clock of some wealthy old sod who pretends they are the Masters of the Universe. 

Which brings me back to the absurd statement that nothing is as good as an original Jaques set, that someone should spend $2,000+ to buy a "genuine" Jaques set that has been reconditioned, etc., and that modern sets will never be as valuable as a "genuine" refurbished Jaques set. Nonsense!!! I can well appreciate a genuine Jaques set, and yes an original set that has been lovingly taken care of is indeed a collector's item. But to say that some of the modern sets, such as HoS' Artisans sets or even their Collector Series Luxury sets, which are essentially a improved version of Jaques' early sets that incorporated some of the better design qualities of those early sets which are aesthetically pleasing to the eye all into a single set of pieces, and could *almost* be passed off as a genuine Jaques set, were it not for the condition of the set -- newness -- and an in depth knowledge of all those early Jaques sets. A correctly "antiqued" set of modern Sauntons could be in theory said to have been assembled from several Jaques sets because exact replacement pieces could not be found, and the set was then carefully stored. While the claim would not fool a highly knowledgeable person, it probably could fool many other people.

Your claim that these "millions"  of modern Sauntons will never be worth as much as a "genuine" Jaques set fails the logic test for several reasons the first is obvious: there are so many variations on Jaques original design that the "millions" simply do not add up. Second compared to some of the Artisan sets that HoS and others are now producing, these are made in vastly limited numbers, and 100 years --or less -- into the future  these sets will be highly prized sets. Set a modern Artisan set next to a "genuine" Jaques set, and the Jaques set looks crude compared to the Artisan set.  I happen to own a HoS Collector Series Luxury set with a 4.0" king. In Boxwood and Rosewood.  HoS no longer offers this set in in Boxwood and Rosewood.  It is stored in a heavy Red Burl, fitted Coffer, complete with a brass plaque with I.D. -- an improved upon idea started by Jaques. Add to that a CUSTOM chess board that has curly maple and purple heart 2.5" squares, surrounded by a rosewood boarder with inlaid bloodwood accents, with spalted maple corners and delimiter. Now tell me that sometime in the future the entire set will not be worth a small fortune?  

Lol

 

Not to interject, but certainly a long and incestuous relationship among Kings and Queens, and it seems that with the passage of time the edge must definitely be Anglo. 

Rule Britannia!   

I have mixed fillings about these reproductions. I would certainly not buy one to invest my money. I would like to have or an original set or a good reproduction, but I am not ready to pay the prices asked for such sets. For this reason I try to find a set in flea markets or antiques shops. I am doing this since more than 20 years.

I have in the meantime a rather impressive collection of chess sets, boards, clocks and books. I never found an original or a copy of Jacques in wood (I have one in Bakelite). I have some interesting old sets with he characteristic bishops and Knights, but not Jaques.

From my experience the copies of high quality wooden Jaques' sets are very rare in Europe. I have a higher chance to find in Switzerland a Solora chess clock in a flea market than a replica of Jaques (I bought already two Solora clocks for 10 or 15 Swiss Francs each).

LOL. Here's a HoS Artisan set:

I agree with azbobcat that the newer made and higher quality (not the cheap stuff) reproduction sets are of a better quality in both design and production than the original Jaques sets made more than at least 60 years ago or so.

We can and do thank Jaques for creating and popularizing the Staunton design that is used in serious Chess at all levels.  Yes, there are some companies selling reproductions of Jaques designed sets since 1849.  And as in any other market the consumer needs to be discriminating at to what they buy and what they pay for these sets.

However I do like a lot of the other design offerings that are not Jaques produced.  For instance look at the Dubrovnik designs, the various Soviet designs, the Lardy designs and so on.

We can and do thank Jaques for creating and popularizing the Staunton design that is used in serious Chess at all levels. 

No we do not think Jaques actually created the Staunton design set AFAWK Nat Cook(e) designed it.

My wife (and historian) and I wrote an article settting out what is know of the origins of the design for anyone here who has not read it.

http://www.chessspy.com/articles/Staunton%20Chess%20Set%20Design.pdf