Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

It's always hard to tell from photos , label looks legit & box looks OK for mid 1900s set ,

1500 is a lot / still prices have gone up on everything theses days

£1500 is too much IMO. I sold a 1870-ish 4 inch set which was fully restored a few months ago for £2000, by auction on ebay - so based on that, I think it's too much money. 

@madmacsback - I agree with all of that

Hummmmmm. The Box is NOT Mahogany. I know mahogany, and that box is not mahogany.  Mahogany is a very dense hard wood, and usually very dark brown, this box is slightly farker than boxwood

2. The box is way to shiny.

3. The label has the look of having been photocopied and stuck on the inside lid of a fairly modern box.

4. Jaques of London as I read use to place their label on the BOTTOM of the Box (which is one of the reasons so few example have survived), not on the inside of the lid.

5. The pieces are too shiny as well.

6. Assuming that the BLACK pieces are EBONY, I don't see any cracks which usually occurs with OLD Ebony (one of the reasons I don't like boxwood and EBONY sets). The hairline fractures may will be there which we can not see in the photos. I'd want to know if the Black Pieces are EBONY or EBONISED BOXWOOD. 

IF this is a genuine Jaques set -- and it well may be -- and not a clever forgery  -- ie a fairly recent reproduction, stuck in a fairly new box, with a photocopied label -- then the set has been taken very good care of / or seldom used, and probably dates to the mid 1920's to early 1930's just before WWII.  Before I put a bid on this set I'd want to know the providence of the set. The owner of the set should be able to tell you if they are the first owners -- and if so, they should have some documentation -- and if NOT, who *they* bought the set from. 1,500 pounds is a lot of money for what could be a clever forgery. It is also possible the set is a genuine Jaques of London set, and then the box got damaged, the owner then bought a fairly recent box, then photocopied the label , and then stuck the label on the inside of the lid of the box. That's the other question that comes to mind: How did they glue the label to the inside of the lid?? Modern adhesives were not around in the late 1800's or early decades of the 1900's. What was common was paste  -- like wallpaper paste, but paste is WHITE. Looking at the label the adhesive appears to be CLEAR hence the "wet look" of the label.  

While this is a very, very nice set, the more I look at it the more questions come to mind, enough so that I would ask the seller for the providence of the set. They should be willing to provide you with it gladly; if not, if they become defensive, etc., I'd turn around and run. Truthfully, I'd much rather buy a much better set from the HOS for a fraction of the price than take a chance on buying a set that has a lot of question marks surrounding it. Nice set though, though I'd question the 1500 pound asking price. 

I disagree with some of that azbocat:

1. Having the label inside the lid is normal for Jaques sets.
2. I have had many Jaques sets where there was no cracking on any of the pieces (and plenty of Ayres sets where the ebony pieces crack horribly!)
3. Jaques sets have French Polish applied to the pieces. If they have been well used, this wears off - but if they have not been played with they will be shiny.
4. I agree the box looks too light in colour to be mahogany, but the construction, the hinges and the locking mechanism all look exactly the same as the Jaques boxes I have owned in the past

Maybe that box is oak? A quick google reveals that recent high-end Jaques sets come in oak boxes.

At some point OP needs to do his own home work ? as there is enough info out there on google / Buy it because you like it / if not then don't , The reality is you want a high end Jaques sets you are going to have to pay for it .

Hi Shaun, I've just found your set up for auction. It's saying the auctioneer's estimate is £1000-£1500, but I can't see where it says starting bid is £1500? Also bear in mind you have to pay 24% on top of the hammer price.

Uh, yeah, sure.  Part of his "homework" could be asking for assistance & opinions from the depth of knowledge in this forum, yes?  If you've got it to spare by all means spend the cash, unless you want to spend the cash wisely for sets such as this.

Are you always this harsh in your commentary?

No just to the point /  Op knows from past posts for the kind of set he wants  / With box +key

He's looking at 1500  +

Yes but this thread is about Jaques sets and reproductions. So discussing whether a specific set that has come up for sale is exactly what this thread is for. Everyone here learns from these discussion, not just the person asking the questions.

I would ask as many people about this before expending that kind of money for anything.

It's what this thread is about, isn't it?

PS  That box doesn't appear to be mahogany either.  

That is interesting! I notice a couple of differences with that set though: 

The kingside markings are red rather than black

The rooks look different - on the pics you posted the crenellations are thicker at the bottom and taper to be thinner at the top (as they do with all earlier Jaques sets) whereas on the set in question the crenellations look to be the uniform thickness 

Well I can now semi-officially date the set to between 1915-1930. The thing that has bothered me is:

1.  The Label. The label is WHITE, not Yellow, Green, or some other COLOR. The label has a washed out look about it to boot and is is almost in pristine shape compared to other GENUINE Jacques labels... even in boxes where the label was under the cover.

2. The Box. That *should* be a mahogany box. That box clearly is NOT mahogany.

I went back to that washed out label and looked for clues that might date the set. And I found one! The label says John Jaques and Son Ltd. While John Jacques and Son became a Limited parternship somewhere around 1900 -1904, on Chess Men Labels from that period were GREEN. According to Bloomberg, "John Jaques & Son Ltd was founded in 1925. The company's line of business includes the manufacturing of games and game sets for adults and children." If you look at labels the Saunton Chess pieces this is obviously post 1915 looking at the posted set and it included a GREEN label. If the set were post 1930 it would say "Genuine" above the The Staunton Chess Pieces. 

My guess is that when Jacques and Son expanded out from just producers of chess sets in 1925, and they concentrated on more than just chess sets they no longer added the nice touches such as COLORED labels, but rather the equivalent of mimiographed labels which might account for the washed out look of the label.

Second, the box is NOT mahogany. Anyone who is familiar with mahogany anything knows that mahogany wood is EXPENSIVE. So they built or had built for them boxes made with much less expensive wood, given they were expanding their business in other directions they needed to cut corners to save money. Thus my guess that this set is from somewhere between 1925 and 1930. Further dating would be by 1) finding other sets with a WHITE labels  2) and / or comparing the various styles of the pieces but especially the Knights and the Bishops.