Rd 6 Candidates 2020: Suppose Nepo tests Positive for Wuhan Virus?

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SmyslovFan

Yesterday, I had a conversation with Emil Sutovsky and some others. He defended the decision to continue the tournament, but agreed the opening ceremony could have had a smaller reception. He seemed to suggest that was the responsibility of the city's organizers who wanted a big crowd. At least FIDE kept the eight contestants away from that. He did not commit at that time to cancelling the closing ceremony. 

The situation is changing so rapidly though that it's entirely possible the tournament could get cancelled. Emil Sutovsky said that cancelling the tournament would not only be a major blow to FIDE (whose main revenue source is the World Championship), but to all of chess. He may be right. 

But I think it's becoming more likely that the event will be cancelled. Ding Liren, who went more than 100 games without defeat, has lost three of his first six games. If Grischuk falls significantly off the pace, he may withdraw anyway. And that's all presuming that the eight players are physically healthy. The mental strain of the virus is clearly affecting the players.

Asparagusic_acids
SeniorPatzer wrote:
KingsBishop wrote:

@SeniorPatzer could Radjabov appeal and demand his rightful chance as a Candidate to contest for the Challenger's seat in the World Championship?

If that is the case, then actually option B would be correct. after all, he EARNED his spot as a Candidate.

but let's take the "what if" a step further. Given the fact that the Wuhan virus has resulted in quite a few fatalities; and given the fact that one does not become symptomatic until days after the virus is contracted; It is very likely that if one person gets it, they will all get it. and if they all get it, then they are all at risk of dying from it.

So, what if all 8 Candidates die from the Wuhan virus? Would that convince FIDE to allow Radjabov to play Carlsen for the title?

 

Actually, I think there's another possibility.  Restart the entire Candidates 2020 from scratch, and have a 9-player Double Round-Robin instead!  Include BOTH Radjabov and MVL.

 

With regards to your last hypothetical, I don't think that will happen.  It's extremely improbable given the statistical data that's been collected so far.  

 

Here's a slightly more likely scenario than the one you pose.  Suppose Nepo transmitted the Wuhan/Covid-19 virus to Ding during their Round 6.  That would totally suck for Ding.  "I lose the game to Nepo AND I get infected by Nepo!!!  What the $%#!   I left China, stayed in quarantine for 14 days in Russia, and then I get infected in Russia??!"

 

I don't think Ding and the Chinese chess federation would be pleased.

Nepo might have the common cold instead of SARS-cov2.

SeniorPatzer
Asparagusic_acids wrote:
 

Nepo might have the common cold instead of SARS-cov2.

 

That would definitely be preferable!

Asparagusic_acids
SeniorPatzer wrote:
Asparagusic_acids wrote:
 

Nepo might have the common cold instead of SARS-cov2.

 

That would definitely be preferable!

In the article, it said that nepo tested negative.

SeniorPatzer
SmyslovFan wrote:

Yesterday, I had a conversation with Emil Sutovsky and some others. He defended the decision to continue the tournament, but agreed the opening ceremony could have had a smaller reception. He seemed to suggest that was the responsibility of the city's organizers who wanted a big crowd. At least FIDE kept the eight contestants away from that. He did not commit at that time to cancelling the closing ceremony. 

The situation is changing so rapidly though that it's entirely possible the tournament could get cancelled. Emil Sutovsky said that cancelling the tournament would not only be a major blow to FIDE (whose main revenue source is the World Championship), but to all of chess. He may be right. 

But I think it's becoming more likely that the event will be cancelled. Ding Liren, who went more than 100 games without defeat, has lost three of his first six games. If Grischuk falls significantly off the pace, he may withdraw anyway. And that's all presuming that the eight players are physically healthy. The mental strain of the virus is clearly affecting the players.

 

Whoa!  That's so cool that you have connections to such a high level in FIDE.   I don't criticize FIDE for not suspending the tournament in the beginning.  Nor would I criticize FIDE with whatever choice they make going forward.  It's not that FIDE is above criticism. 

It's simply that FIDE had difficult choices and trade-offs to make, and I could see how and why they made the decisions they did so far. 

Ziryab
Asparagusic_acids wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
Asparagusic_acids wrote:
 

Nepo might have the common cold instead of SARS-cov2.

 

That would definitely be preferable!

In the article, it said that nepo tested negative.

 

These tests give many false negatives. I know another GM who first tested negative and then a CT scan found it.

JamesAgadir
KingsBishop a écrit :

oh, and @Ziryab if you really think it is suspicious for me to suggest we dismiss the conspiracy theories, you might wish to take a long hard look in the mirror.

What is actually "harmful" is when people turn a question about what FIDE should do if someone contracts the Wuhan Virus into a divisive political issue. 

The point of the post was not the NAME of the virus, but what should be done if someone in the tournament gets it.

But surely using an unscientific and uncommon name is something worth commenting upon. It's Covid 19 scientifically and Coronavirus in common use. Use of other terms is inaccurate and could lead to confusion. It's like calling pigeons flying rats that infest london and other cities. Sure most people can guess what your saying. But just use the right name (you've even got a choice here).

Asparagusic_acids
JamesAgadir wrote:
KingsBishop a écrit :

oh, and @Ziryab if you really think it is suspicious for me to suggest we dismiss the conspiracy theories, you might wish to take a long hard look in the mirror.

What is actually "harmful" is when people turn a question about what FIDE should do if someone contracts the Wuhan Virus into a divisive political issue. 

The point of the post was not the NAME of the virus, but what should be done if someone in the tournament gets it.

But surely using an unscientific and uncommon name is something worth commenting upon. It's Covid 19 scientifically and Coronavirus in common use. Use of other terms is inaccurate and could lead to confusion. It's like calling pigeons flying rats that infest london and other cities. Sure most people can guess what your saying. But just use the right name (you've even got a choice here).

Also using the term Wuhan virus leads to xenophobia. 

IpswichMatt

Fortunately the farming and consumption of wild animals is being banned in China as a result of this outbreak.

Of course I'm not saying that the farming and consumption of wild animals in China is what caused this outbreak - saying that would be racist.

SmyslovFan

The US could never make the consumption of wild animals illegal. It would be viewed as an assault on the Second Amendment.

SeniorPatzer
Ziryab wrote:
Asparagusic_acids wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
Asparagusic_acids wrote:
 

Nepo might have the common cold instead of SARS-cov2.

 

That would definitely be preferable!

In the article, it said that nepo tested negative.

 

These tests give many false negatives. I know another GM who first tested negative and then a CT scan found it.

 

That's unfortunate.  I hope he didn't get it from playing chess.

Ziryab
SmyslovFan wrote:

The US could never make the consumption of wild animals illegal. It would be viewed as an assault on the Second Amendment.

 

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. The gun enthusiasts fancying themselves smarter than lawyers, whom you are mocking, would point that out in a heartbeat. Some of them have called me a Fudd because I am more interested in single shot rifles, hunting, and target shooting. They see an AR-15 and a Glock (substitute your favorite brand here) with a double-stack magazine—both for self-defense—as the essence of the Second Amendment. Their views are generally just as distorted as the views of those who want to ban guns and think the Second Amendment only protects some sort of militia.

SmyslovFan
Ziryab wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:

The US could never make the consumption of wild animals illegal. It would be viewed as an assault on the Second Amendment.

 

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. The gun enthusiasts fancying themselves smarter than lawyers, whom you are mocking, would point that out in a heartbeat. Some of them have called me a Fudd because I am more interested in single shot rifles, hunting, and target shooting. They see an AR-15 and a Glock (substitute your favorite brand here) with a double-stack magazine—both for self-defense—as the essence of the Second Amendment. Their views are generally just as distorted as the views of those who want to ban guns and think the Second Amendment only protects some sort of militia.

Yes, I know the Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. But the NRA would still make it a Second Amendment issue.  But this is tangential to the main topic.

Ziryab
IpswichMatt wrote:

Fortunately the farming and consumption of wild animals is being banned in China as a result of this outbreak.

Of course I'm not saying that the farming and consumption of wild animals in China is what caused this outbreak - saying that would be racist.

 

Consumption of wild animals may well have led to the virus adapting to humans, or some activity in preparation of this consumption may have been. The government of China certainly seems to think there is a link.

Making statements of fact about the health risks of certain behaviors, even when those behaviors are rooted in a culture is not racist. The suggestion that it would be distorts the nature of racism. Such distortions are a common ploy of racists who don’t want to change (not that I think that’s your motive here).

Ziryab
KingsBishop wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:

The US could never make the consumption of wild animals illegal. It would be viewed as an assault on the Second Amendment.

 

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. The gun enthusiasts fancying themselves smarter than lawyers, whom you are mocking, would point that out in a heartbeat. Some of them have called me a Fudd because I am more interested in single shot rifles, hunting, and target shooting. They see an AR-15 and a Glock (substitute your favorite brand here) with a double-stack magazine—both for self-defense—as the essence of the Second Amendment. Their views are generally just as distorted as the views of those who want to ban guns and think the Second Amendment only protects some sort of militia.

Wow... now we are on the second amendment... Amazing how this thread has come so far from its intent... But amazingly, I agree with @Ziryab

The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting and everything to do with defending myself, my family, my friends and my property.

 

To be clear, though, I was describing the views of others.

My views, which are in flux as I deepen my understanding of the history through reading a few primary sources I had missed earlier, as well as a growing mass of legal and historical scholarship, include the sense that Saul Cornell is probably right that the Second Amendment conferred responsibility as much as rights (the two were rarely separable in the minds of the Framers). In terms of the self-defense argument, your right to self-defense of you and yours is also an obligation to defend your neighbors.

Armed self-defense is much more explicit in something over half of the state constitutions than in the Second Amendment. Many of these also use language that suggests civic obligations in the context of the rights.

Ziryab
KingsBishop wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Making statements of fact about the health risks of certain behaviors, even when those behaviors are rooted in a culture is not racist. The suggestion that it would be distorts the nature of racism.

 

What is going on here? I now have another point of AGREEMENT with @Ziryab.

And... Making statements of FACT about WHERE the first known case of the virus happened is not racist either.

 

COVID-19 was discovered in Wuhan, China in late December 2019. It was made public outside China in early January. By sometime in February (I’m not 100% certain of the chronology on this point), the World Health Organization had given the names SARS-CoV-2 to the virus and COVID-19 to the disease.

SmyslovFan

Here is exactly what Emil Sutovsky wrote on Facebook yesterday, which started a conversation among many FIDE members:

People keep asking about Candidates - wondering whether FIDE had carefully reviewed the situation.
I think the things should not be taken out of proportions. Obviously it is difficult for players - as the pressure is already high and issues add up. It is also difficult for FIDE - and actually cancelling it all would be the simplest thing to do from the beginning. It would have been considered a "responsible step". But it is very easy to ruin the cycle, in fact cancelling the chess life altogether. I would say that stopping the event would be a huge blow for chess. Not for FIDE. For entire chess world. Would we prefer to stage it in a regular atmosphere, without all the problems and hype? You bet. But we were not in a position to choose - and most players understand it, even if they are not exactly happy with the situation. But what was the alternative? How high is the risk? Of course we asked ourselves and reviewed it all more than once. Now, it is very important to understand the details. There is an actual problem in the World - when the situations that only look similar are tackled in the similar way. Here we talk about the event with only eight players. And actually there is a whole string of measures taken to minimize the risk. So we can't really compare it to other sports. And when it was about larger events - we did postpone them. Once again, we understand how difficult it is for players, and being myself a top-20 player in recent past, I understand them fully. FIDE does its utmost both to minimize the risk and not to overwhelm Grandmasters who are already under the pressure with all sorts of check-ups. We often talk about one's responsibility - here we see our responsibility in finding the balance allowing players to compete, at the same time protecting their health. And of course tackling all the issues to make sure everybody gets home safely after the event.

Asparagusic_acids
SeniorPatzer wrote:

Nepo is leading by a full point after 6 rounds, with a sterling score of 4.5/6.  He was coughing noticeably in the post-game conference, a great win over Ding with the White pieces, and he was thinking of getting a quick draw because he wasn't feeling well.  

 

Suppose Nepo tests positive for the Wuhan virus on the rest day.  What should the FIDE organizers do?

A)  Cancel the tournament and start over later with the scores reset to 0 for everybody.

 

B)  Cancel the tournament and start over later with the scores reset to 0 for everybody and Radjabov plays instead of MVL.

 

C)  Suspend the tournament and play later with all scores carrying over from after Round 6.

 

D)  Continue the tournament but without Nepo.  

 

If these were the Candidate Moves under consideration by the Organizers (pun intended), then which move choice do you think they should select?

 

I would choose Option C.  How about you?

You forgot option e) declare nepo the winner.

SeniorPatzer

Thanks SmyslovFan.  I read that quote somewhere else yesterday, and I understand what he says and sympathize.  It's a gamechanger if Nepo or any of the other players catches it and tests positive.

 

What do they do if it's round 10 or later?   If Nepo is leading comfortably as he is now,  you can't cancel and start all over again.  It would be unfair to him.

 

I just hope he has allergies or the common cold, and that the Candidates tournament concludes with no one getting the Wuhan/COVID-19 virus.

Confused-psyduck

After all of this, Why would You insist on using the word "Wuhan virus" ? You can Just use the scientific name Covid19 and everyone would know what You are talking about. Chinese people faced racism all around the world after the outbreak, Calling the virus the Wuhan virus only helps spreading racism and bigotry. 

@KingsBishop If You Don't mind a virus is named after the city You live in that's your problem. What I can tell You is that I live in China and that all of the people I know DO MIND.