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1 f4 is it playable ?

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dodgecharger1968
beardogjones wrote:

I tried to play f4 but the pawn slipped and ended up on f3 - so for me f4 is not playable.

LOL, I did this once and eeked out the win...though I think my opponent was too baffled to really take advantage.

dodgecharger1968
Ziryab wrote:

(Of course, the 18 or 19 was bait. Thanks for being the fish.) 

Ha!  You're right to a degree:  transpositions are very important with flank openings, and one of the weaknesses of 1f4 is limited transpositional potential (too committal!).  I mean, 1g3 is a horrible opening if you're not prepared for several transpositions.  But the English and the Reti stand very well on their own--though you can avoid certain counter-strategies with e4/d4 transpositions, if you know and prefer them.

Ziryab
dodgecharger1968 wrote:
beardogjones wrote:

I tried to play f4 but the pawn slipped and ended up on f3 - so for me f4 is not playable.

LOL, I did this once and eeked out the win...though I think my opponent was too baffled to really take advantage.

That's how the devil invented the Caro-Kann. He meant to play the Sicilian.

Ziryab
dodgecharger1968 wrote:

You'd put the Grob higher than the Orangutan OR Nc3?  Interesting...

Claude Bloodgood wrote a book on the Grob. I have it.

dodgecharger1968
Ziryab wrote:
dodgecharger1968 wrote:

You'd put the Grob higher than the Orangutan OR Nc3?  Interesting...

Claude Bloodgood wrote a book on the Grob. I have it.

I've read a synopsis of it.  (Ever read about his life?  Wow...)  I think 1b4 accomplishes a lot more than 1g4 in the grand scheme of things, though it's probably just a matter of taste as to which you judge better.  1Nc3 usually yields a Veresov or a Vienna Game--innocuous openings, but I bet they score a lot better than the long fianchetto!

Ziryab
dodgecharger1968 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
dodgecharger1968 wrote:

You'd put the Grob higher than the Orangutan OR Nc3?  Interesting...

Claude Bloodgood wrote a book on the Grob. I have it.

I've read a synopsis of it.  (Ever read about his life?  Wow...)  I think 1b4 accomplishes a lot more than 1g4 in the grand scheme of things, though it's probably just a matter of taste as to which you judge better.  1Nc3 usually yields a Veresov or a Vienna Game--innocuous openings, but I bet they score a lot better than the long fianchetto!

The games and analysis are available for free download in ChessBase format. Don't remember where I found it, but Google knows.

I read about his life decades before I played or saw anyone else play 1.g4.

A couple of guys at my local chess club play the Orangutan. One is Santa. He plays the Polish as Black. I win more than 90% of my games against him. My rating is about 800 higher.

dodgecharger1968
Ziryab wrote:

A couple of guys at my local chess club play the Orangutan. One is Santa. He plays the Polish as Black. I win more than 90% of my games against him. My rating is about 800 higher.

I play both on occasion.  What I really like about them is that ignoring the flank, building up the center, and developing logically is the WRONG way to beat these openings.  But if you address the threats right away, they're not so hot.  So I play them pretty sparingly.  Fun, though...

dpcarballo

I think none of the players here is a GM, so , why to play an opening simply because they do?

Remember you're playing an opponent, yes, that guy on the chair in front, not Carlsen, not Nakamura. So make the moves that ANNOY HIM (again, not Carlsen, not Nakamura) I've played 1.f4 in tournamments and stayed with 93 minutes after 10 moves while my (stronger) opponent had just 10 and position was +=!!!! If I had entered his Najdorf, things would have been completely different

pps1
markgravitygood wrote:

"1. f4 is the best choice against booked opponents"

1.f4 is a poor choice against stronger opponents, period. Booked or not. And, who knows who is "booked" or not when you sit down to play a game in a tournament?

I think you are talking fantasy.

As for Larsen-Spassky, Black equalized easily by move 14. He erred slightly with 15...Qd7. Qb6 was a better move. To say 1.f4 was a good choice ignores the course of the game.

And Larsen-Petrosian, Portoroz 1958 is even worse. Petrosian had a decided advantage by move 13. He subsequently played poorly with 18. ...Bd6, missing 18....c4 securing a good advantage.

This anecdotal evidence is suspect as to the veracity of 1.f4, at worst.

But, the thread is fun!

:)

i really get angry when people say in this opening white has advanteg or black has eqalized. because only in some oppenings this is true for example in the sicilian najdof white has a hundred tempis but black has 

compassion for something else .And the special case is in the symmetrical oppenings but then black has eqalized 



pps1

no tell me why is not good as f4 see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbL8cVIGZs

if one pawn move weakens the king side so much whe shold stop playing the KID or the dragon

Irontiger
pps1 wrote:

 




Lol. You must be a very strong player.

TheGreatOogieBoogie
Ziryab wrote:
dpcarballo wrote:
Ziryab escribió:

There are twenty legal first moves. Eighteen or nineteen are playable. Two are superior to eighteen others. Three are superior to fifteen others. Three or four more are better than eleven or twelve. 1.f4 is in the second set of three; 1.c4 is in the first set of three.

We are not talking about phylosophy but about CHESS. Just tell me why is 1.f4 in the "second set"

1.f4 is in the second set of three. It is inferior to 1.e4, d4, Nf3, g3, and c4. It is equal to 1.b3 and 1.g4.

Hey the Nimzo-Larsen is not on par with the Grob!  The Nimzo-Larsen is a great opening whereas the Grob just weakens the kingside. 

Ziryab
vinsvis

It's playable, but more so if you're right-handed 

dodgecharger1968

LOL, 4b3?  Why not 4g4?  Or 2g4, for that matter?

chiaroscuro62

4 b3 in the above positions is the well known "Chiaroscuro gambit".  It is somewhat tactically unsound, but positionally very deep.  If you can make it through the ensuing tactical complications, you are likely to have a sizable plus. 

dodgecharger1968
chiaroscuro62 wrote:

4 b3 in the above positions is the well known "Chiaroscuro gambit".  It is somewhat tactically unsound, but positionally very deep.  If you can make it through the ensuing tactical complications, you are likely to have a sizable plus. 

Because you have an opponent who overlooks forced wins?  lol, that is a plus...

FireAndLightz

This is suicide for lower rated players, I think you have to have an 1700/1800 + rating to play this.

chiaroscuro62
dodgecharger1968 wrote:
chiaroscuro62 wrote:

4 b3 in the above positions is the well known "Chiaroscuro gambit".  It is somewhat tactically unsound, but positionally very deep.  If you can make it through the ensuing tactical complications, you are likely to have a sizable plus. 

Because you have an opponent who overlooks forced wins?  lol, that is a plus...

Well, I did say there were complications...

stringerbill

I play f4 going into a stonewall attack. By playing f4 I avoid benoni.