2. Nc3 against the french defense

I am a chess newb, so please be kind.

Last night, I was playing with a club at Starbucks. Not really knowing the openings, but being reasonably sensible, play went along these lines (I was White):

I went home and looked at some opening manuals and didn't find a similar line of play where the knight was brought to c3. It seems ok, but I was hoping y'all could shed some light on why it might not be a good move.

I'm unrated and my opponent somewhere in the 2200's. I didn't ask him at the time, but I did ask him about 4. Nf3, which he thought might be a bad move outright, but wasn't sure - apparently even 2200+ players don't know everything .

So if anyone has any constructive insights on 2. Nc3 and 4. Nf3, I would be grateful.

I analysed the game for fun. See below. I hope you find it interesting.

2. Nc3 is ok but it is much more usual (and a little stronger I think) to play 2. d4 which is the main line. 

4. Nf3 is not great. Again, d4 is the move here and black could have made life harder by playing 4. ... d4 himself. White needs to play d4 early to stop the black pawn advancing beyond the 4th rank and depriving white of space.

kid! i analyzed your game, there is no problem in your opening. you need to solve some tactics

@bogglemebrains. Study this some more refers to the analysis and game, not just the opening. I'm a newb keep in mind

As a French player, I can tell you the following:

A) 2.d4 is stronger than 2.Nc3, though after 2...d5, White can just as easily transpose with 3.d4

B) If you are going to exchange pawns, you need to follow up with d4 to prevent ...d4 by Black.  If your intent is to indeed play the exchange variation, you might as well play 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 as then you get the flexibility of playing 4.Bd3, 4.c4, 4.Nf3, or 4.Nc3.  The first 2 are far more common.  The last usually comes from the Winawer, 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.exd5 exd5.  The downside to your move order is Black doesn't have to play 4...Bb4, and could instead go to say, e7 with the Bishop.

3) If you want to avoid d4, there are two ways to do it, though the latter will usually require d4 to be played at some point anyway:

   a) Play the King's Indian Attack - instead of 2.Nc3, you play 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 intending 4.g3, 5.Bg2, 6.Ngf3, and 7.O-O

   b) Play the Two Knights Variation - 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 (no exchange on d5) where Black's most common replies are 3...Nf6 and 3...d4.  3...dxe4 may be playable, but the Rubinstein is best played only when d4 is committed to so that he can chip at White's center with an eventual ...c5.  With the pawn still on d2, there is no center to put under pressure for Black.

So in your game, you need to play 4.d4 instead of 4.Nf3.  There are obviously other errors in your game, but since this is the thread on openings, I'm answering the opening phase of your game.

I love Nf3 in my opinion. rather bringing both knights out in the beginning, I like to develop my right side with e4, Nf3, and d4. typically your opponent won't take d4 allowing you to advance to d5 setting yourself up nicely later in the game

Oh, it's debatable. Imho there are 3 optimal moves: 2. d4, 2. Nf3 and 2. Nc3.

What about 2.b3, 2.d3, 2.Qe2, and 2.f4 ?

2.Nc3 has not real independant value, white should transpose into exchange french.

2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 enjoyed a brief surge of popularity several years ago, usually with an agressive idea of long castling in mind. But today, we know that Black can get a very good game against this plan, with proper moves.

@jengaias Yeah, 4. e5 is the optimal move even though it blocks the DSB on b2.

The only book i know dealing with 2.b3, from white's point of view, is SOS 9, where Finkel wrote a chapter on it.

After 1.e4 e6 2.b3 d5 3.Bb2 Nf6, he advocates 4.e5 Nfd7, and now, the main game goes 5.Qg4, though he thinks that going back into an advance french structure with d4 is ok.

We could argue that black doesnt have anymore Ne7-f5 possibility, and Bb2 is not so misplaced, at least he supports centre, it is a common square for him in advanced variation).

5.Qg4 is more usual, here is the game he gives some analysis :