2Kdefence - is this move good

Hi!

Today I was playing a game and my opponent chose to exchange his knight and bishop against my pawn and rook. I personally never do that. Is this move considered good?

Not good in THIS position

Thanks, Ghostqiuyu! Can you tell me why? Because white is now back in development as he has changed his active knight and bishop against my inactive rook?

yeah,a little bit like that.Black has he's pieces more developted than white.you can play e6,Be6,Qd7,Kg8,Rf8 and you're king is safe.you have the f-column.Or you can play d5 to have the center but it's a little bit dangerous because of you're king.An exchange of R vs. B-N-P is not good for white.

I think it's that...

It usually isnt good to trade 2 minor pieces for a rook and a pawn

so it isnt in this case

2 minor pieces are usually worth R+2P 

2 bishops worth more than R+2P

        I thought the usually accepted values were pawn - 1, knight/bishop - 3 and rook - 5. Obviously, these are only a guide.

This is a tempting exchange sacrifice because the points are the same (Rook + Pawn vs Bishop + Knight) But because of the somewhat slow and weak pawn, the trade isn't really even. The trade is basically just the Rook alone for the Knight and Bishop. If Black plays accurately enough, he should have an easy win.

Ohhh and lines to follow could be Qf3, Nc3, or c3, or c4.

You'd initiate the Traxler.

When people play things like this they often hope the Black king will be unsafe, but here he looks fine to me--just one move at some point to get back to g8 and he might as well be castled.  Also it's not terribly easy for White to get in d4.  Black has squares for all of his pieces and no pawn weaknesses.  I'd much rather have Black.

To win this with White, try to simplify the position by trading off pieces. Push for an endgame. Try to strive for a Rook vs. Bishop or Knight Endgame. To win with Black, he needs to keep his pieces on the board. He captured 2 in exchange for 1. The pawn that was captured wasn't going to serve much purpose besides protecting the castled King. I agree with mkkuhner once Black restores his King, the game shows a slight edge for Black.

To stereotype that you never trade 2 Pieces for Rook and Pawn is a huge mistake.

Statistically speaking, the two pieces are better than the rook and pawn far more often than the other way around, but to flat out say that you never do it (barring checkmate) is a mistake.  I have won many games with the Rook and Pawn.

That said, the whole opening line you give is botched by both sides.  Black's 4th move is extremely dubious, and White's 5th move is a complete and utter joke!

Thriller made good point white was already winning.

I'm not entirely sure if I understand? Could you please elaborate what you mean by and I quote, "Maybe mot if the play Nf7 ... "

Thanks IM pfren. I get it now. 

Not keeping any secrets.  Your 10th move for both players is incorrect in your line with 6.Kf1.  After 10.Nf7?, 10...Qc5! gives Black chances.

Instead, 10.c3! and now 10...Qc6 11.cxd4 Qxc4+ 12.Kxf2 Qxd4+ 13.Ke1! Bg4 14.Qb3 O-O-O 15.Nc3 Ne4 16.Nxe4 Qxe4+ 17.Qe3 Qxe3+ (17...Qxg2?? 18.Rg1 +-) 18.dxe3 Rd1+ 19.Kf2 Rxh1 20.Nf7 Bf5 21.Nxe5 Rxh2 22.Nf3 +- and White's up a piece in the endgame.

bongcloudftw wrote:

One must wonder why white didn't take with the bishop on move 5...

I believe there is a deadly crapload of theory if white plays nxf7!!??

And yeah, I would agree with chessmicky that black is close to winning here.

.

White can get checkmated fast in the Traxler, if he doesn't know the lines. Black's attack is much more dangerous than it looks.

I shall!

I followed the line up to "Instead, 10.c3!" but don't see that 10..Qc6 is necessary. Does 10..Bg4 do any better? I must admit that I don't like these messy positions and would avoid it from any side if I was playing in an OTB game. It seems to me that Black is always struggling in the Traxler and has to bail out with perpetual in many lines so using the Traxler as main defence to 4.Ng5 seems bad when you will face lower rated players that could be happy for draw. And even lines that White is playing for a win seem to be hard for black with wierd material imbalances which on surface favour White.

Here you go pfren, this one is for you: