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Aggressive Response to 4...Nf6 in the Scotch

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The_Gavinator

No it's usually not played becasue it's overlooked. Look at whatupyodog, he got banned because he did so good with it.

The_Gavinator

But that's not the Parham. The point of it, other than winning rooks, scholar's mates, and kiddie countergambit, is that g6 is a bad move. That's what let's you pin, and let's you win.

The_Gavinator

He also had another video showing how the Parham is overlooked by many of the trolls on here. And yeah you should probably head out, last time you did a move thing it didn't work out so hot for you. h6 is just weak, FYI.

The_Gavinator

Well he actually said it was much better than his reputation, and you can't seem to fight it yourself, so please don't criticize it. That's like the fat kid saying doing push-ups are easy when he can't do one himself.

TonyH

again the evidence fails to support your worship of the 2. Qh5 line. 

The evidence quoted is that Nakamura played it several years ago in some blitz games online, poor evidence! Nakamura trotted it out in two OTB games and drew one and lost one. But wait you said he made a mistake in the middlegame or he would have been better. EXACTLY! one of the most talented players in the world missed the right ideas because he was challenged by his opponent and himself and couldnt find the right plan. 
THe other games are by weak players or won from bad positions because of an overt blunder. games between 2000 players dont count as theory, sorry. NO its not refuted but if black plays sensible moves they equalized fairly easily and can challenge white in the middlegame, not something white should be striving for. I watched Gata Kamsky play blitz when he was making his comeback and it was amazing,... for fun he played Na3 and Nh3 against anything black played,... and won against strong opposition. Just because you see GMs play something in blitz does not validate it.
Finally IM Martin is a funny guy and part of his JOB is to sell videos. Do you think he is going to say this is garbage and there is better things to play and then sell you the video? He has a captive audience that eats up stuff because it fits an emotional desire to win fast and easily and trick your opponent. 

John Nunn talked about these types of openings in his Practical chess book and gives a break down of how to show the problems with anyone supporting something that is universally considered second rate

You can argue that its equal BUT it is NOT as good as the other mainline openings such as the Italian, ruy lopez, queens gambit, Kings gambit etc. Its not! period! and you as a 1300-1500 player arguing with IM and players that are 100's of points stronger than you make you look like a child.

We arent close minded about new ideas. The Lasker-Pelikin was under a theoetical cloud (read Fine's ideas behind the chess openings to see the 'refutation') until Sveshnikov showed some new ideas and PROVED them in GAMES against strong MASTER (IM/GM) level opposition. Kramnik picked it up giving it the final seal of approval.  He also did the same with the Berlin defense. Kasparov revived the Scotch and Evans Gambit. 

Morozevich revived the Albin and some other side lines as well.

The thing your lacking is PROOF! blitz games arent proof. A 1900 "Master" playing it and preaching it to his students doesnt validate it either. Trust me when I say that If it was valid you would see it more, Players today are looking for surprise weapons to take players out of book yet you havent seen this idea played in a serious game .,...

Somepeople refuse to acknowledge the evidence presented to them no matter what it is. There are people who believe the world is flat, that noone has visted the moon, that global warming doesnt exist ,GW Bush had a brain and the "parham" is a valid attempt to win.

The_Gavinator

Actually, I rented a video about the veresov that was pretty much 20 minutes of him saying "And black looks equal here". He gave good analysis, and made good points. That game Nakamura lost in the midgame, after he had a WINNING position from the Parham. The other games weren't two 2000's against eachother. They actually all involved at least one player 2500+

Ben_Dubuque

Anyway this is a forum about the Scotch, lets keep it that way.

I also would like to mention FOR THE RECORD, that the reason the other forum was locked and whatup was banned TWICE was telling people to f themselves, hardly a new idea in the world of cussing people out, but enough to get people infuriated with his demeanor and request his being removed from the site.

I will post one last thing on the parham and then focus on the scotch

and now for the Scotch

I like the above lines for white. anyway, thats it rant over.

TonyH
The_Gavinator

That's cuz a6 is dumb, Qh5 has merit. There's absolutely no purpose in doing a6 except to troll, Qh5 is an attack, and it's just overlooked for bringing the queen out early. There's no similarity.

Ben_Dubuque

yes there is, they were both played by world class players for thier time, the major diffences are Tony Miles actually beat Karpov with it, Naka lost a game with his and drew another to people rated much lower than him. Miles beat the WC with it.

The_Gavinator

I don't care about what the world class players did, look at the moves. a6 kills time, Qh5 is an attack. How are you all so dull?

Rubidium
pfren wrote:

So, 1.e4 Nf6 2.Qh5 Nxh5 with a slight Black advantage puts the Parham into a somewhat dubious state. Case closed.

However, this might be a shock to the modern.

1.e4 g6 Qh5!!

and black, if he wants to accept the sacrifice will need to accept doubled, ugly, issolated h pawns and a horrid kingside pawn construction just for one tiny queen.

But back to topic, e4 e5 qh5 nc6 qxf7 is ok for 1 min games, but nonsense for real chess. I would accept playing the parham in fast time controls, but I would rather play 1. a3 for regular chess, where I just lose one move instead of two. (1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nc6 3.Qd1! [white decides to be smart])

Ben_Dubuque

I am just using evidence, like you want us too, or do you want us to prove your opening is best, well that isn't going to happen anytime soon, there is a reason Parham only got to 2100, there is a reason Naka never had a positive OTB result under classical time controls, there is a reason why this is never seen in serious games between 2600+'s, its because the Parham is not the best opening, there is a reason why the highest rated player to use the KG was 2813 if I remember correctly, and his name was Carlsen. The KG is sound, the Parham Not.

finalunpurez

The kings gambit is not 100% sound cuz some lines in the kings knight gambit are refuted.

Ben_Dubuque

in practical play maybe, but the entire thing is sound, I mean if White doesnt go overboard, the Gambit is sound. Bc4 is the line I play because it works

Kolegamackaa

It is funny how you are showing us your masterpiece and how you give us an example in a heavily lost game. If it was OTB i have no brightest idea how this might happened

Helzeth
The_Gavinator wrote:

That's cuz a6 is dumb, Qh5 has merit. There's absolutely no purpose in doing a6 except to troll, Qh5 is an attack, and it's just overlooked for bringing the queen out early. There's no similarity.

Karpov was beaten by a6 herp derp berp lerp.

Helzeth
Kolegamackaa wrote:
 

It is funny how you are showing us your masterpiece and how you give us an example in a heavily lost game. If it was OTB i have no brightest idea how this might happened

are you serious?

rxf2 and nxc7 can win material back.

it was otb.

geez.

Having won the piece back and gotten some material to go with it. Am I missing something?

Helzeth

I used the a6 argument in the same way the nonrussian uses his silly nakamura argument

Ben_Dubuque

did you know that according to that site that the mods will remove the name of on this site, thier opening analysis tool calls 2. Qh5 the Patzer Opening

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