amateurs never play main lines - Chess Forums - Page 2

TitanChess666 · 2018-06-27T05:04:53-07:00

Whenever I decide to grab a quick game at my local chess club, we usually get into a rather common and theoretically known position when my opponent plays a real jacked-up move. Why do beginners always play in this fashion?

Preggo_Basashi

Jul 7, 2018

0

#21

Sure, "TitanChess666" is a username that screams serious replies only. Especially with that avatar, and especially when you have a 2000 rating and ask dumb questions.

...

Taskinen

Jul 7, 2018

0

#22

TitanChess666 wrote:

Preggo_Basashi wrote:

If chess was just playing main lines, no one would bother playing. It'd be too boring.

Sidelines aren't even bad most of the time, and they lead to interesting and complicated positions... if you find that frustrating I honestly wonder how much you even like chess.

The reason that i ask these questions is to get constructive answers，not trash talk like this。I know you‘’re just trying to get arise from me， so ihave decided to ignore that comment instead.

Step 1. Ignore a comment
Step 2. Reply to it.

Preggo_Basashi

Jul 7, 2018

0

#23

I'm a horse.

ThrillerFan

Jul 7, 2018

0

#24

TitanChess666 wrote:

Preggo_Basashi wrote:

If chess was just playing main lines, no one would bother playing. It'd be too boring.

Sidelines aren't even bad most of the time, and they lead to interesting and complicated positions... if you find that frustrating I honestly wonder how much you even like chess.

The reason that i ask these questions is to get constructive answers，not trash talk like this。I know you‘’re just trying to get arise from me， so ihave decided to ignore that comment instead.

Uhm, the constructive answer has already been given to you! Post 14! It may be harsh, and the truth may hurt, but I refuse to fabricate the truth. If the truth hurts, so be it, but everything in post 14 is about all you need to know. So if you are a memorizer rather than one that actually puts the hard work into studying, well, that's your problem!

If post 14 is not what you are looking for, then in truth, you are not looking for constructive answers, you are looking for confirmation, and expect people to respond with the words you want to hear rather than what is the sheer truth!

I am the wrong person if you are looking to hear what you want to hear. If you want to know the truth, I'm your guy!

kindaspongey

Jul 7, 2018

0

#25

"... I think people tend to be afraid of the main lines. They think: ... sure, I'm going to take up (say) 5 Bg5 against the Semi-Slav, once I've got time and learned it properly. ... My advice is - don't bother. The more you learn anyway, the more you'll recognize how little you know. ... 5 Bg5 is a good move - get it on the board, get ready to fight, and see what happens.
Sure, there will come a time, whether on move two or move twenty, when your knowledge of theory runs out and you have to decide what to do on your own. ... sometimes you will leave theory first, sometimes your opponent. Nothing will stop this happening. It happens in every well-contested GM game at some point, usually a very significant point. This is a part of the game: an important part, something you have to get better at. ... to improve you have to challenge yourself; ..." - IM John Cox (2006)

MickinMD

Jul 7, 2018

0

#26

There are moves that are NOT in, say, any of the six books I have about the Caro-Kann but the chess.com Opening Explorer will show 15 master games, 9 won by White.

Sometimes these transpose back into the main variations, sometimes not, but those that do not are often strong moves.

In the early 1990's, 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4, the Bishop's Opening, was considered bad and had been out of favor for 60 years. The only books I could easily find on it were Gary Lane's Winning with the Bishop's Opening and one by a world correspondence GM from Lithuania. I taught it to the high school chess team I coached and with it we ruled our strongly competitive county and won State Scholastics Championships team trophies in three consecutive years - no one we played knew it like we did.

Then Kasparov played it and suddenly it was ok again and everyone learned it.

If you look at the last generation, there are variations that have only become accepted in that time. That will certainly continue in the future.

So never underestimate a "non-book" move!

NM darkunorthodox88

Jul 7, 2018

0

#27

MickinMD wrote:

There are moves that are NOT in, say, any of the six books I have about the Caro-Kann but the chess.com Opening Explorer will show 15 master games, 9 won by White.

Sometimes these transpose back into the main variations, sometimes not, but those that do not are often strong moves.

In the early 1990's, 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4, the Bishop's Opening, was considered bad and had been out of favor for 60 years. The only books I could easily find on it were Gary Lane's Winning with the Bishop's Opening and one by a world correspondence GM from Lithuania. I taught it to the high school chess team I coached and with it we ruled our strongly competitive county and won State Scholastics Championships team trophies in three consecutive years - no one we played knew it like we did.

Then Kasparov played it and suddenly it was ok again and everyone learned it.

If you look at the last generation, there are variations that have only become accepted in that time. That will certainly continue in the future.

So never underestimate a "non-book" move!

i dont think the bishop's opening has EVER been considered bad, inferior to 2.nf3 sure, but not even dubious.

varelse1

Jul 7, 2018

0

#28

Even some Masters find success, avoiding mainlines.

varelse1

Jul 7, 2018

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#29

MickinMD wrote:

There are moves that are NOT in, say, any of the six books I have about the Caro-Kann but the chess.com Opening Explorer will show 15 master games, 9 won by White.

Sometimes these transpose back into the main variations, sometimes not, but those that do not are often strong moves.

In the early 1990's, 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4, the Bishop's Opening, was considered bad and had been out of favor for 60 years. The only books I could easily find on it were Gary Lane's Winning with the Bishop's Opening and one by a world correspondence GM from Lithuania. I taught it to the high school chess team I coached and with it we ruled our strongly competitive county and won State Scholastics Championships team trophies in three consecutive years - no one we played knew it like we did.

Then Kasparov played it and suddenly it was ok again and everyone learned it.

If you look at the last generation, there are variations that have only become accepted in that time. That will certainly continue in the future.

So never underestimate a "non-book" move!

Nice post!

congrandolor

Jul 8, 2018

0

#30

Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Sure, "TitanChess666" is a username that screams serious replies only. Especially with that avatar, and especially when you have a 2000 rating and ask dumb questions.

...

A 2000 rating is high and deserves respect

Preggo_Basashi

Jul 8, 2018

0

#31

mecuelgalapieza wrote:

Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Sure, "TitanChess666" is a username that screams serious replies only. Especially with that avatar, and especially when you have a 2000 rating and ask dumb questions.

...

A 2000 rating is high and deserves respect

Not from Kasparov

ThrillerFan

Jul 8, 2018

0

#32

mecuelgalapieza wrote:

Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Sure, "TitanChess666" is a username that screams serious replies only. Especially with that avatar, and especially when you have a 2000 rating and ask dumb questions.

...

A 2000 rating is high and deserves respect

Eh, he's no 2000 player. Look up at USChess.org. He's from Texas. If you enter M%, Austin, you get all the people with the first name Austin, last name starting with an M.

There is an Austin Mei who is 1937 and an Austin Mead who is 1608. Next highest Texas resident with first name Austin, last initial M is 859.

He's a 1937 player at best!

And if he is the 1937 player, he's a little kid. Played in the Elementary School Championship this year in Tennessee. If that's him, no wonder he asks dumb questions. Kids now-a-days are often ADD and don't have the patience to actually study the non-main lines and would rather whine on chess.com!

If that's not him, he's 1608 at best!

Metar_Taf

Jul 8, 2018

0

#33

Chesslover0_0 wrote:

TitanChess666 wrote:

What's most infuriating is that you can't even refute their junk move!!

I had the same problem dude,don't let it bother you,just keep playing sound,logical Chess and you'll soon crack them,most of the time,I know it's infuriating when they keep moving pawns and you're trying to develop soundly,castle etc. but that will fill their positions full of holes and if you know anything about Chess strategy,that's a great square for horses xD. Also they'll be severely set back on development.

You see unlike in other games,justice takes place over our beloved board,and if you decide,you're going to "do it your way" and ignore the general guidelines and principles that we've all studied so hard,well most of us ,you will fall at some point. Don't worry about it,most of them don't know what they are doing any way so as I said just keep developing soundly and playing strategically and eventually the tactics will show up (in your favor) and it's gg,shall we start again,this time I'll be black! ;-)

So in short,don't worry about "main lines" that's only for strong players,most patzers don't play those and that's why you're told not to study them,instead focus on tactics which you WILL be able to use against weaker players (and even some strong players),I hear u though on the frustrating part though,you really can't stop them,I mean a move is a move no matter how sh**y it is lol

I got "chess openings for black explained". No one ever plays the main line of the Sicilian. I have played 5+ black games that include e4 during the time I had the repitore. All of them had sidelines. And a very frustrating game when I had white in the Scotch Gambit and my opponent played move that was supposed to blunder a pawn, according to the book. But he actually got a good position and beat me! Maybe my books are too outdated, 2008.

kindaspongey

Jul 8, 2018

0

#34

HolographWars wrote:

... I got "chess openings for black explained". No one ever plays the main line of the Sicilian. I have played 5+ black games that include e4 during the time I had the repitore. All of them had sidelines. And a very frustrating game when I had white in the Scotch Gambit and my opponent played move that was supposed to blunder a pawn, according to the book. But he actually got a good position and beat me! Maybe my books are too outdated, 2008.

Age might be a part of the problem, but I suspect that a bigger part of the problem was the use of a book with a heavy emphasis on variations instead of sample games. Might be of interest to look at the specific Scotch Gambit game and see if it is possible to pin down exactly what went wrong. Remember a specific troublesome 1 e4 sideline?

Metar_Taf

Jul 8, 2018

0

#35

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 nc6 3. D4 exd4 4. Bc4 nf6 5. e5 Qe7? How to punish this???

TurpantineNYC

Jul 8, 2018

0

#36

I think you are talking about the scotch gambit. It is playable. Go look up the scotch gambit and see how to stop it. It is likely very complicated to prove unsound, however there are means to avoiding it altogether

Metar_Taf

Jul 8, 2018

0

#37

I was white

Metar_Taf

Jul 8, 2018

0

#38

Was a bit unclear, but want to punish qe7

TurpantineNYC

Jul 8, 2018

0

#39

I think qe7 is the main line. It isn’t punishable. The whole point of the gambit is to obtain rapid piece development over your opponent. Qe7 stops the pawn from capturing due to a pin. Your next move should be continuing development with O-O. This will renew the threat to his knight because the pawn is no longer pinned. Learn the next 4-5 move sequences and you will be pretty good at that opening

Metar_Taf

Jul 8, 2018

0

#40

gyiantselis wrote:

I think qe7 is the main line. It isn’t punishable. The whole point of the gambit is to obtain rapid piece development over your opponent. Qe7 stops the pawn from capturing due to a pin. Your next move should be continuing development with O-O. This will renew the threat to his knight because the pawn is no longer pinned. Learn the next 4-5 move sequences and you will be pretty good at that opening

According to my book it should have been punishable. Usually d5 is the main line, then Bb5 then I have much knowledge in that position. Again after 5+ white games with e5 that position has not been reached once. I am rated 1759 otb, btw. Must find solutions or else I will stay at this rating forever.