If you want to waste your life away playing the rat defense go ahead. People like Bartholomew and Simon Williams put up gimmick videos to get your attention. Take the bait if you must.
Any Resources on the Rat Defense?
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BeanFinegold wrote:
If you want to waste your life away playing the rat defense go ahead. People like Bartholomew and Simon Williams put up gimmick videos to get your attention. Take the bait if you must.
You were being somewhat helpful at first but now you've gone full troll. I won't take any any of your comments seriously anymore.
Mar 15, 2021
0
#25
BeanFinegold wrote:
I gave you the truth. You are near the water. You can now drink it.
Actually, you have not given the truth!
In fact, 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 is one of the few openings where Black is over 50%, and 3.dxe5?! dxe5 4.Qxd8 Kxd8 is even worse for White!
What the OP does not realize is he cannot pick and choose with this opening. It is all or nothing!
After 1.d4 d6, White has, in addition to that garbage line he gives which favors Black, the following:
A) 2.c4 e5 3.Nf3!, which is White's best move and at minimum equal, if not more for White.
B) 2.e4!, after which Black is obligated to enter a Pirc (2...Nf6 3.Nc3 g6), Pribyl (2...Nf6 3.Nc3 c6 - Which the book recommends, covered as 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 c6), or Midern (2...g6).
In addition to that, he must know wither the Old Indian or Kings Indian. After 1.d4 d6 2.e4 Nf6, White has 3.f3, where 3...Bg7 4.c4 is a Saemisch KI, and 3...e5 4.d5 and c4 is a version of the Old Indian.
So it is not as simple as the Queen trade line and pick and choose the rest. It is all or nothing. When I did play 1.d4, I always answered 1...d6 with 2.e4!
ThrillerFan wrote:
BeanFinegold wrote:
I gave you the truth. You are near the water. You can now drink it.
Actually, you have not given the truth!
In fact, 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 is one of the few openings where Black is over 50%, and 3.dxe5?! dxe5 4.Qxd8 Kxd8 is even worse for White!
What the OP does not realize is he cannot pick and choose with this opening. It is all or nothing!
After 1.d4 d6, White has, in addition to that garbage line he gives which favors Black, the following:
A) 2.c4 e5 3.Nf3!, which is White's best move and at minimum equal, if not more for White.
B) 2.e4!, after which Black is obligated to enter a Pirc (2...Nf6 3.Nc3 g6), Pribyl (2...Nf6 3.Nc3 c6 - Which the book recommends, covered as 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 c6), or Midern (2...g6).
In addition to that, he must know wither the Old Indian or Kings Indian. After 1.d4 d6 2.e4 Nf6, White has 3.f3, where 3...Bg7 4.c4 is a Saemisch KI, and 3...e5 4.d5 and c4 is a version of the Old Indian.
So it is not as simple as the Queen trade line and pick and choose the rest. It is all or nothing. When I did play 1.d4, I always answered 1...d6 with 2.e4!
I've been playing the King's Indian for years and I recently picked up the Philidor/Black Lion so I'm comfortable transposing to those openings. There are maybe some gaps in my repertoire but I plan to work hard to fill those out.
Mar 15, 2021
0
#27
"n fact, 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 is one of the few openings where Black is over 50%, and 3.dxe5?! dxe5 4.Qxd8 Kxd8 is even worse for White!"
50% what?
Are you saying that more than 50% of games by top 100 GMs are won in this opening?
So far there is lack of evidence and a bold claim of "over 50%", whatever that means. The Danvers Opening also has something similar with a 50% to 40% win for black.
ThrillerFan, I can't make new posts on this thread. I asked for any game on the database. You haven't presented any. The ball is in your court.
Also, I asked for a 20 year span because I know some openings won't be played in a single tournament. So, the point I make is still valid. Why worry about an opening that hasn't been played seriously in serious important events? I am not talking about Nakamura and Carlsen playing the double bongcloud in a useless round that won't affect their standings.
Since I can't post anymore on this thread, it is now for the "rat" people to put up or shut up. I'll sit back and see if any of you can provide valid proof, and I already checked. Naroditsky and Tang playing it in the wee hours of the night online doesn't count.
Mar 15, 2021
0
#28
Let's see a game within the past 20 years with the Rat's Defense that was played in a tournament such as the World Cup or FIDE Grand Prix which decides who will play in the Candidate's for a chance to play for the WCC.
"I guarantee you that if you pull up Megabase 2021, and search for that position and restrict Black to over 2500 and the date be 2001 to 2021, you will find plenty of games."
What major events? You are worse than a christian telling an atheist to read the buybull in order to believe in a spaghetti monster.
"2) You are too lazy to look for yourself and expect others to be a slave of yours rather than taking statement and finding for yourself that they are true."
I am not going to exhaust all possibilities. All you need to show is one rat defense in the Carlsen Caruana/Karjakin/Anand WCCs, the Anand WCCs with other players, Kramnik, Kasimdzhanov, any others, the candidates for any of these WCCs, and all the way do to Kasparov, Karpov, and would even accept Nigel Short, Spasskey, Fischer, etc... etc... etc...
JUST NAME ONE!!! YOU CAN'T!!!
There is no game. Your megabase is a megabase of patzers trying to play this at the amateur level.
3) That you understand nothing about statistics.
Yea, you know so much. A megabase of amateur play proves something. Remind me not to take surgery advice from you.
BeanFinegold wrote:
Let's see a game within the past 20 years with the Rat's Defense that was played in a tournament such as the World Cup or FIDE Grand Prix which decides who will play in the Candidate's for a chance to play for the WCC.
Lol, you don't see the Rat at the top level precisely because it's known to be good for Black. If White is a strong player then they will generally avoid it.
Mar 15, 2021
0
#30
Schism90 wrote:
BeanFinegold wrote:
Let's see a game within the past 20 years with the Rat's Defense that was played in a tournament such as the World Cup or FIDE Grand Prix which decides who will play in the Candidate's for a chance to play for the WCC.
Lol, you don't see the Rat at the top level precisely because it's known to be good for Black. If White is a strong player then they will generally avoid it.
Yea, well, that is partly my point. Why spend so much time on something that will not bring you rewards in the end?
BeanFinegold wrote:
Schism90 wrote:
BeanFinegold wrote:
Let's see a game within the past 20 years with the Rat's Defense that was played in a tournament such as the World Cup or FIDE Grand Prix which decides who will play in the Candidate's for a chance to play for the WCC.
Lol, you don't see the Rat at the top level precisely because it's known to be good for Black. If White is a strong player then they will generally avoid it.
Yea, well, that is partly my point. Why spend so much time on something that will not bring you rewards in the end?
Because I enjoy it and by studying endgame positions I will get to a higher level of chess understanding.
Mar 15, 2021
0
#32
Why do you need to play the Rat Defense to do this? What endgame can you only reach with the Rat Defense?
Furthermore, if you want to trade queens early, why not play Qb6 and Qb3 in the French or do a Berlin, l'Hermet Variation?
(@Schism90 you remind of this video. People don't say what you want to hear and you cry like a baby.)
BeanFinegold wrote:
Why do you need to play the Rat Defense to do this? What endgame can you only reach with the Rat Defense?
Furthermore, if you want to trade queens early, why not play Qb6 and Qb3 in the French or do a Berlin, l'Hermet Variation?
Because this endgame fits in nicely with my repertoire and I was already familiar with some of the ideas. You are starting to annoy me now and it's clear you have nothing more to add so I'm just going to block you now.
Mar 15, 2021
0
#34
BeanFinegold wrote:
Why do you need to play the Rat Defense to do this? What endgame can you only reach with the Rat Defense?
Furthermore, if you want to trade queens early, why not play Qb6 and Qb3 in the French or do a Berlin, l'Hermet Variation?
why do you want to play king pawn opening? What endgame can you only reach with the king pawn opening?
Furthermore, if you want center control why not play d4 and d5 in the Queen pawn opening or do a Caro- Kann Variation?
just saying, everyone has their own ideas and interests
Mar 16, 2021
0
#35
BeanFinegold wrote:
"n fact, 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 is one of the few openings where Black is over 50%, and 3.dxe5?! dxe5 4.Qxd8 Kxd8 is even worse for White!"
50% what?
Are you saying that more than 50% of games by top 100 GMs are won in this opening?
So far there is lack of evidence and a bold claim of "over 50%", whatever that means. The Danvers Opening also has something similar with a 50% to 40% win for black.
See, already you are clueless as you do not understand how to read a database. I said it scores above 50% for Black.
Take 365chess.com, for example. Chess scores 1 point for a win, 1/2 for a draw, and nothing for a loss. In games that White wins, white gets the full point. So after 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5, White wins 27.5 percent of the time, or scores the full point 27.5 percent of the time.
The position was drawn 33.5 percent of the time. 33.5 percent of the time, white gets half the point and Black gets half the point, or in other words, this 33.5 percent is split 16.75-16 75. So White is now at 44.25% (27.5+16.75)
Black scores the full point 39% of the time, and so Black scores a whopping 55.75% with this opening.
However, to get the real truth, you have to look further. After 3.dxe5?, White scores below 32% and after 3.Nf3!, literally just a tick above 50%, and after 2.e4!, way higher!
Before you start ridiculing the truth, learn how to read a database!
Mar 16, 2021
0
#36
BeanFinegold wrote:
Let's see a game within the past 20 years with the Rat's Defense that was played in a tournament such as the World Cup or FIDE Grand Prix which decides who will play in the Candidate's for a chance to play for the WCC.
Such a request is assanine! 8 players play in the candidates. You could get an entire candidates match without many openings. Depends on the style of the 8 players. You may not get a single Dragon, or a single Caro-Kann, or a single Chigorin Ruy Lopez (9...Na5). Does that make them bad?
Openings come and go in popularity. 3rd quarter of the 20th century the French was all the rage. 4th quarter it was Najdorf (Kasparov) and Caro-Kann (Karpov). 2000s it was the Berlin. 2010s it was the Sveshnikov.
Just because these were played at different time periods does not make any of them bad!
Mar 16, 2021
0
#37
I think black has an advantage because he will be much better prepared and it's such an easy position to play for black. It's a seriously underrated defence for black.
nTzT wrote:
I think black has an advantage because he will be much better prepared and it's such an easy position to play for black. It's a seriously underrated defence for black.
Right, it's very easy for White to have the illusion that the endgame favors them or even that it's equal. Statistics have shown that Black has the advantage, at least from a practical point of view.
Mar 16, 2021
0
#39
Schism90 wrote:
nTzT wrote:
I think black has an advantage because he will be much better prepared and it's such an easy position to play for black. It's a seriously underrated defence for black.
Right, it's very easy for White to have the illusion that the endgame favors them or even that it's equal. Statistics have shown that Black has the advantage, at least from a practical point of view.
Yeap... I fell for that trap myself. It's just not a fun position to play as white at all. It feels like black has already equalized(in the queen trade line) and he is in familiar territory and has a plan for all his pieces.
After 1. d4 d6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 dxe5 4. Qxd8+ Kxd8 I found a number of World Championship games in the Chessbase online database from the likes of Seniors, U20's, U14's and U12's events including this game from the 2014 World Championship Blitz Final (Women)
and this game from 2001 where both players are rated over 2500 FIDE
/Enjoy
I doubt you will have useful annotation on the rat defense, and you are on top of that demanding a queen trade. This is the earliest one I have found so far. You can use an engine and see what the point is and if it is really worth the time.
I suggest if you are really interested in the rat defense to not go for the queen trade.
On the contrary I've watched a few videos where John Bartholomew played this defense and his commentary was very helpful.
There is really no reason to avoid the Queen trade considering that this endgame is known to be better for Black and I'm very comfortable playing it.
John Bartholomew has what rating and title? Let's see top GMs make a go of it first. You say this on a day where Nakamura and Carlsen played the following.
You joined 22 hours ago and your comments add no value. Just get lost, you aren't funny. Just another boring troll.