Any thoughs on this variantion of a polish opening?

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sndeww

Well first off, I’m not convinced of whites position after simple e5 and Bxb4, and after e5 b5 a6 I feel black is better. 

a3 plans e3 and c4, which also gains space on the queenside and chips at the center.

darkunorthodox88
Dsmith42 wrote:

@B1ZMARK - 2. a3 is not inferior because it gives black the center, it is inferior because it doesn't create space on the queenside, with is the point of 1. b4.  The Orangutan commits white to a plan, and it is to limit what support black can provide to the big pawn center with his queenside pieces.  If the fianchetto were the main point, then white would play Larsen's (1. b3) instead.  The a-pawn is going to a4 in this opening system anyway, and so 2. a3 merely wastes a tempo on the way to getting it there.

Black can't effectively play symmetrically, so the push to b5 is an important point.  In fact, I've seen 1. b4 e5 2. b5 played very often, and usually to good effect.  The c6 square is the best development square that the b8 knight has, and with it under threat, both that knight and the c8 bishop must now develop through d7, which is slower and presents no targets of attack since white hasn't advanced any central pawns.

b5 this early is just not a good idea.  in some of the polish lines,  b5 right away is  the more thematic option, but it drastically narrows down the game. whereas a3 keeps a lot of options in the board and can be played like a queen's pawn game with more space on the queenside. 1.b4 e5 2.b5?! however just makes b5 an easy target, since white has not fianchettoed yet, his rook is not defended after a6, and axb5.

spell_part_backwards
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
spell_part_backwards wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
spell_part_backwards hat geschrieben:

a3 is a sub-optimal move that gives you a disadvantage, compared to the exchange variation which equalizes for white and black.

a3 is a transpositional move that yields black equality at best. One of the advantages of playing the white pieces.

In the Book "The Sokolsky Opening l.b4 in Theory & Practice" Jerzy Konikowski Reccomends Bishop B2 vs E5 by Black

 

The Move Pawn to A3 vs Blacks Pawn to E5 is called the Bugayev Attack and is generally considered inferior since black can play Pawn to D5 without the fear of His E pawn Hanging and getting taken by the Bishop

 

Sure, A3 isn't that bad but the Bugayev Attack is not as good as Bb2

this is surely a hasty generalization. They are some lines of of the bxb4 lines that unless white is willing to be outright worse, lead to forced draw with best play. While i usually play 2.bb2 more than 2. a3, the latter keeps the position far more flexible. 

My Comment of the Move A3 in the Polish is talking about when Black Responds to 1.B4 with e5 Rather than every Line in the Opening. Saying the Move a3 is Always Awful in every line is not what I meant to say, In fact I don't even think the Bugayev Attack is that bad of a line for white, however it is an Inferior Move 1. b4 e5 compared to Bb2

 

Another thing to note is that Alexey Sokolsky Played Nothing But Bb2 in all 37 Pgn's we have of him playing from the Position 1. b4 e5 

 

Alexey Sokolsky - Chess Games (chesstempo.com)

 

 

MaddyCole

A real man sacks the bwp.png.

sndeww

Guess I’m a woman.

Dsmith42
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

b5 this early is just not a good idea.  in some of the polish lines,  b5 right away is  the more thematic option, but it drastically narrows down the game. whereas a3 keeps a lot of options in the board and can be played like a queen's pawn game with more space on the queenside. 1.b4 e5 2.b5?! however just makes b5 an easy target, since white has not fianchettoed yet, his rook is not defended after a6, and axb5.

If 1. b4 e5 2. b5 a6, then 3. c4 maintains the pressure (I've seen this a number of times, and it can be a nuisance), though I agree it's best to play Bb2 before pushing the b-pawn a second time.

Tartakower's games with the opening all involve an early b5.  The b-pawn is going to move again, which was the more important point.  White's a-pawn is going to a4, so 2. a3 is slow, and therefore sub-optimal.  Hypermodern openings (1. b4 is a flank attack, so it falls firmly into that category) usually live and die by tempo, so it makes no sense at all to waste one on a rook pawn.

spell_part_backwards
Dsmith42 wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

b5 this early is just not a good idea.  in some of the polish lines,  b5 right away is  the more thematic option, but it drastically narrows down the game. whereas a3 keeps a lot of options in the board and can be played like a queen's pawn game with more space on the queenside. 1.b4 e5 2.b5?! however just makes b5 an easy target, since white has not fianchettoed yet, his rook is not defended after a6, and axb5.

If 1. b4 e5 2. b5 a6, then 3. c4 maintains the pressure (I've seen this a number of times, and it can be a nuisance), though I agree it's best to play Bb2 before pushing the b-pawn a second time.

Tartakower's games with the opening all involve an early b5.  The b-pawn is going to move again, which was the more important point.  White's a-pawn is going to a4, so 2. a3 is slow, and therefore sub-optimal.  Hypermodern openings (1. b4 is a flank attack, so it falls firmly into that category) usually live and die by tempo, so it makes no sense at all to waste one on a rook pawn.

The threat of b5 as a threat is usually enough to dissuade anyone from playing Something like 1. b4 e5 2. Bb2 Nc6 or anything else that a very early b5 would be effective vs. Funnily enough the threat of an early b5 is used more than the actual move, except in pet lines like 1. b4 a5 *

darkunorthodox88
Dsmith42 wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

b5 this early is just not a good idea.  in some of the polish lines,  b5 right away is  the more thematic option, but it drastically narrows down the game. whereas a3 keeps a lot of options in the board and can be played like a queen's pawn game with more space on the queenside. 1.b4 e5 2.b5?! however just makes b5 an easy target, since white has not fianchettoed yet, his rook is not defended after a6, and axb5.

If 1. b4 e5 2. b5 a6, then 3. c4 maintains the pressure (I've seen this a number of times, and it can be a nuisance), though I agree it's best to play Bb2 before pushing the b-pawn a second time.

Tartakower's games with the opening all involve an early b5.  The b-pawn is going to move again, which was the more important point.  White's a-pawn is going to a4, so 2. a3 is slow, and therefore sub-optimal.  Hypermodern openings (1. b4 is a flank attack, so it falls firmly into that category) usually live and die by tempo, so it makes no sense at all to waste one on a rook pawn.

and then c6 and then what?

black is now threatening to get a rook file and give more support to d5, what has white achieved? he cant even keep a pawn on b5

dvonprisk
If it works it works!
spell_part_backwards
dvonprisk wrote:
If it works it works!

bit reductionist dont you think?