Anyone pls help on Italian game theory?

Sort:
Avatar of Sir_Newton_II

I tried watching vids but if someone would go in a game a walked me through stuff, that would be great.

Avatar of Astrogash2009

[e4 E5 Nf3 nc6 bc4 ] this is the normal Italian game, opponent can reply with both nf6 which is two knights defense and bc5 which is guicco piano main line and opponent can play this gambit [e4 e5 Nf3 nc6 bc4 and nd4](by giving e5 pawn) which is called black burne shilling gambit.

Avatar of pfren

A rough course on just the main Italian lines would require about 100 dense pages.

Avatar of Sir_Newton_II

I am willing to read that 100 pages, after I do the first five moves, I don't know what I'm doing anymore

Avatar of key_kay

where do i find the 100 pages?

Avatar of Sir_Newton_II

fr, link pls

Avatar of AngusByers

After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc3 3. Bc4 ... you've got a life times worth of material to consider. The Italian has been around, and is still being played at the top level, because it is a good, principled, opening set up. You target Black's weakest point (their King's Bishop Pawn on f7) and have developed your pieces without moving things multiple times.

You need to deal with the two knights (when Black plays 4. ... Nf6) and the Guioco Piano lines (4. ... Bc5), so pick something in each to start with. The latter has a lot of options from Evan's Gambit to the Guioco Pianissimo (the very quiet game I think it translates to). One of my pet lines is "Bird's attack", which is sort of like Evan's Gambit, but you don't gambit the pawn as you play c3 first. Here's a game I played against the Antonio Bot to illustrate. Although I don't (because I'm rubbish), I think the usual idea is to bring the queen side knight over to the king side, which requires a Re1 at some point as your Knight will go there and then on to g3. This line (c3 followed by b4) is not as explored as other lines, although you will see these ideas in many games in later moves, so there's not as much theory to deal with. I've had some good games with it, but I've also done well with the Moeller attack (much hairier) when feeling more agressive.

Avatar of Astrogash2009

IM pfren, I agree But I wrote what I know

Avatar of BossBlunder

there is an excellent Chessable course on the Italian game. It is very long and it almost exclusively covers two lines : Evan's Gambit and Fried Liver/Lolli Attack. Not sure if I am allowed to link chessable courses here?
https://www.chessable.com/course/42964

Avatar of pfren
BossBlunder έγραψε:

there is an excellent Chessable course on the Italian game. It is very long and it almost exclusively covers two lines : Evan's Gambit and Fried Liver/Lolli Attack. Not sure if I am allowed to link chessable courses here?
https://www.chessable.com/course/42964

You can, why not.

Why do you think this course is excellent? OK, the Evans is a decent opening which one can play based on solid principles, but the Polerio Attack is sheer memorization which will not be helpful learning anything in particular. And there a lot of things have happened since the course was authored- just one example, on the Fritz variation:

Here Krykun mentions only 15...Nh4?! which leads to a white advantage after 16.Bg5 (check!), but today we know that after the right move 15...f6! (...Nh4 is the main idea again, but Bg5 is ruled out) Black has a splendid game- against "best play" he will be able to get the pawn back with a more or less equal game.

If one wants to go tactical there are other lines which can be used more than once. 4.Ng5 is a poor choice, because you have to play unintuitive moves by memory, which is sort-of acceptable for professionals, and bad for everyone else.

Avatar of Astrogash2009

I can't understand why we sacrifice the b- pawn in evans gambit. I know that gambit means sacrificing material but , what is the purpose of b-pawn sacrifice.

Avatar of BossBlunder
pfren wrote:
BossBlunder έγραψε:

there is an excellent Chessable course on the Italian game. It is very long and it almost exclusively covers two lines : Evan's Gambit and Fried Liver/Lolli Attack. Not sure if I am allowed to link chessable courses here?
https://www.chessable.com/course/42964

You can, why not.

Why do you think this course is excellent?

Well, because it takes you through many different positions of Evans Gambit and the Lolli, as I mentioned. It also does not start you in the middle of a position for each new line, so you are required to play all the way through every line taught from move 1.E4. For me this helps reinforce the opening by a huge amount of repetition. Also, I am only a 1000 rated player here (well give or take a hundred or so, rapid), and I don't expect to ever actually get as deep as move 15 in any of the lines. However, when I go through the lines in the course, if I don't understand the motive behind a move, I open an engine and work out why my imagined refutation does not work. Then I try to piece together what about the board makes the move usable (Maybe the LSB has to be on c4 for this to be a move, or whatever). Perhaps if I were 2200+ titled player, I would choose more cutting edge instructions, but as I doubt I will ever reach 1800 ChessCom elo, I think this course is excellent.

Hope that answers your question adequately.

Avatar of lostpawn247
Astrogash2009 wrote:

I can't understand why we sacrifice the b- pawn in evans gambit. I know that gambit means sacrificing material but , what is the purpose of b-pawn sacrifice.

The overly simplistic answer is to gain a lead in development and to seize the center. After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3, you are in most lines preparing to play d4 the next move. With the afterwards, you can, depending on how black responds, follow up with moves such as Qb3 and/or Ba3.

It's been decades since I've played or looked into the Evans Gambit so I am neither capable nor interested in providing a detailed answer. My best suggestion is to get a database and a game collection of Evans Gambit games.