Beating the KIA

Hey everyone!  Pretty excited about this thread... maybe we can bounce around some ideas worth considering :).

Okay so basically, my 'worst' opening to face is the KIA.  I started out playing a french-ish system against it, advancing quickly on the queenside.  I was a weaker player than I am now (lil over 1700 compared to 2000 now) and I found myself making progress on the queenside, maybe even winning a pawn, only to get mated on the kingside.  Suffice it to say I dropped the opening.

After that I switched to lasker's defense, which looks something like this:

It's ultra solid.  Black is definitely okay, but I found it very hard to get anything more than a draw. 

Last time I faced the kIA in ratd OTB play, I played a reversed Samish and got destroyed.  As interesting as that opening is, I definitely won't risk it again.

On that note I'll turn it over to you: What do you play in a must win situation vs. the KIA? =D  perhaps if you have some experience in the line, you could post a game or two showing key ideas and piece placemnt and such. 

Thanks in advance!

-matt

i like the double fianchetto variation

That's a really good post Anthony!  I hadn't given it much thought.  Against 1. e4 I'm a 1. ... e5 player.  Have been my whole life.  I also play 1. e4 as white ... so I'm fairly familiar with most of black's choices.  Maybe a dragon setup isn't a bad idea.  Thanks!

I I also play the dragon set up agaisnt the KIA. I find it works wonders because from what i have seen white is the one dealing with problems in most cases.

As a KIA player, the dragon setups are some of the tougher for White to face, as Black gets quite a bit of counterplay on the Q-side but without the usual crazy K-side attacks you would see playing a French setup that every KIA player dreams about.

There's another underestimated setup that I rarely see and that's developing Nge7 instead of Nf6 as in this mess http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070071

Black delays castling and threatens ..g5 ..Neg6 if white plays e5 prematurely.

Bit of a double edged sword, there.

I agree that the plan following 1...g6 seems to be a good one.  Indeed, it looks a lot like the dragon idea others have put forth, but through a more flexible move order.  The big difference in the line you give is that white bails out with c4...which I think is probably best for his chances, but doesn't really match the mindset of most KIA players I know.

There's no downside I can see if you know ahead of time you're playing a KIA merchant.

But absent such knowledge, I'd assume that more often than not, 1.Nf3 was being played with d4/c4 to follow at some point.  If my repertoire against the d-pawn openings didn't include kingside fianchetto stuff, I'd be hesitant to trot out a Modern hoping for a KIA.

Doesn't make it any less of an idea, and I don't mean any of that as criticism.  Just that if you're going to do that, you need to either be booked up on a lot more lines, have the modern in your existing repertoire, or be prepared to puzzle out a lot of tricky lines OTB without preparation when the time comes.

For me, with my usual French/QGD stuff, I might as well tip over my king after 1.Nf3 g6 2.d4!

Oh, my contribution to the thread, for those who don't enjoy dragon-style play:

I favor a setup with QGD style piece placement on the kingside (Nf6, Be7), b6 stuff on the right, and delayed castling, usually queenside.

Objectively, it's probably not black's strongest.  But it's strategically simple, confounds white's default attack against the kingside, and fits in nicely if you play the French and the d5 openings, since if white bails out early, you're generally still in strategic waters you understand.

Not exactly an attacker's system though.

Trying to prepare against me?

This game might help you... http://www.chess5.com/viewgame2.php?gameID=6a144472eb2ef5112a902509487366e2

I play the lasker defense, regardless of weather I need a win or a draw. You're going to get a playable middlegame with it, I find white often plays to agressive and get over exteneded. Here's a game I drew,  but It's not a typical kia middlegame. I missed 22...Rh3 which would have been winning.

Hey Mat,

Didnt know you broke 2000 rating. Congrats!!!

As someone who used to play KIA almost all the time, I find that the one thing that I find the hardest to beat are the ones with the toughest nuts to crack. I usually run out of patience, and the resulted play is not one I'm familiar with, usually ending up sacrificing king safety (charging in with pawns) for counterplay from Black...from the Kingside.

@hyperspace Your setup I find is the one of the ones I remember having the most trouble to beat. In fact, what do you guys think of this...

Seems like c3 would be the logical move and then black loses a tempo retreating the Knight. 

Yeah. I don't like the idea of losing those two pieces for me, though. It's almost like it takes the bite of the KIA right out, since then speed will no longer be Black's issue when dealing with the KIA.

But this position won't occur, because KIA players usually make sure that black can't trade queens, so the majority would go for Bg2 or/and Nbd2 before playing e4.

For Sicilian players, some sort of Botvinnik formation (c5-d6-e5-g6-Bg7-Nc6-Nge7) is fine. But move orders can play tricks.

When i have to face this opening i play a English Botvinnik setup. 

In CC games I've played Spassky's line (1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 b5 3.Bg2 Bb7) with good results. Karpov used it several times; you should be able to find a few games in the online databases. It's very positional and will not suit a player who demands attacking themes.

Here's the opening of a game I played against Jan Timman. His setup against the 1.Nf3 way of getting into the KIA is classical and a practical choice.

See if you can find his next move/sequence. Classy!

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