Black can equalize against 10.Qe1 in the Dragon, Correct?

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Avatar of FizzyBand

Hey again, been analyzing and debating the 10.Qe1 lines with @PushyDiscovery recently, who has repeatedly told me that the Dragon is dubious because of this line and that Black can’t fully equalize. I think that Black can fully equalize and that other lines are far more testing. What do you guys think? Here’s the line if you don’t know.

Avatar of PushyDiscovery

I think White gets a nice advantage in the best lines here. Let's play 3+2 unrated whenever in this line tongue.png.

Avatar of Optimissed

There are some tactics if black plays e5 but it doesn't look sufficient. I think white's better because the kingside attack lands first, but not enough for there to be a forced win in it.

Avatar of PushyDiscovery

Please add more analysis grin.png

Avatar of Zycirline

I don't even wanna go into the tactical stuff here... just seeing that position makes me feel like an ant

Avatar of ace_mar

I actually think this is one of the most testing variations against the Dragon. I think White can get a long-term edge with best play, but ok it's probably not so simple.

Avatar of RChristie_chessventures

My 2 cents worth.

The position is pretty much equal - miniscule advantage to White - according to engines.

However, practically speaking White has the better chances.

Avatar of FizzyBand

Here is GM Gawain Jones’ (Probably the world’s strongest Dragon expert) analysis on handling the line that @PushyDiscovery thinks is best (I don’t think it’s the critical  line)

Avatar of FizzyBand

I think White’s chances to try for an advantage are better after either 14. Ne4 or 16. Ng5 in the Kb1 line, but Jones shows lines against everything leading to fine positions for Black.

Avatar of ace_mar

hmm yeah my analysis continues after 14. Ne4. I would say that is White's best chance for an edge.

Avatar of FizzyBand
 

ace_mar wrote:

hmm yeah my analysis continues after 14. Ne4. I would say that is White's best chance for an edge.

Yeah Ne4 is main line. Game always continues Qc7...Bc5...Rfd8. Then white had choices. I’ll show how Black should rocked according to Jones.

Avatar of FizzyBand

I think Black has equal chances in these lines or at the least a tenable position.

Avatar of punter99

Gawain Jones' recommendation against 14. Kb1 is not played anymore since White came up with 21. Qc3 instead of g3.

Since then Gawain Jones himself tried the 14... Re8 line while Nakamura came up with 15.... Qc7 instead of f5

I will post some games that may be interesting for you

 

 

 

 

 

 

Avatar of PushyDiscovery

Yeah, that Qc3 instead of g3 is what I have and it gives +/- close to winning

Avatar of drmrboss

 

 Leela  prediction of  Win Draw Loss probability for black in 1000 games,

Win 270, Draw 297 Loss 433

Main line she is considering is

 

Avatar of FizzyBand

Thanks @punter99 for showing the 21.Qc3! Move.

I suppose I’ll look into the 14...Re8 and 14...Rb8...15...Qc7 lines a bit more, as from initial appearance it appears black seems fine.

Avatar of punter99

There is also a rare move 14... a5 which looks interesting. Makes sense to prevent Bxa7 by pushing the pawn because a4 can be useful against Bb3 to get some attack in the b-file going.

Results in correspondence are okay (4 draws 1 loss) but it's still almost completely unexplored.

Avatar of PushyDiscovery

Yeah, and I think I have some material on that. White is slightly better after 15. h4

Avatar of LM_player
This is crazy. The people in this thread are obviously way too strong!

I cannot even begin to process the complexity of that position. And I’m seeing players analyzing well past depth 20. I don’t even understand the idea behind move 10! xD

Simply amazing! :D
Avatar of Jim1

FWIW GM John Shaw in his book Playing 1.e4 Sicilian Main Lines chooses 16. Qh4 and offers a couple of improvements for White at move 20 and move 23. He ends his analysis at move 27 with an advantage for White.