Btw caveman is 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 e5 bf5 4 h4
Caveman Caro
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I haven't played 4.h4 so far, i used 4.Nc3 several times. This leads to some sharp variations where both players can easily go wrong. But it was fun.
4.h4 h5 is ok for Black? (don´t know exactly, but this move looks logical)
Dec 7, 2014
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#4
I love the Tal variation, its my favorite choice against the CK. Never heard it called the caveman, lol. And no...it isn't busted or even close.
Dec 7, 2014
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#5
lolurspammed, what exact moves were you playing as white such that black is getting a better position?
It's been a while since I played the Caro-Kann as black, but I think 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Be2 is the variation that is supposed to lead to black working hard to keep the balance.
You might also want to consider the Panov-Botvinnik variation
Dec 7, 2014
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#7
I play 4.Nf3 on occasion but never tried 4.Nc3. Looks kinda over ambitious..
lolurspammed wrote:
Btw caveman is 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 e5 bf5 4 h4
Its called the Caro-Kann Defense: Advance Variation, Tal Variation. Never heard it referred to as the caveman.
Dec 7, 2014
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#10
pfren wrote:
As Black I would go 4...h6 5.g4 Bd7!
What do you think of this position pfren:
6.h5 c5 7.dc Qc7 8.f4 Qc5 9.Nc3
Dec 7, 2014
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#11
Good point...Qc5 seemed automatic but retaking with the DSB looks stronger. Hmmm.
Dec 7, 2014
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#12
The h5 lines pretty much are the reason I'm not playing it as often now. After 4.h4 h5 5.c4 e6 6,
.Nc3 Ne7 7.Bg5 Qb6, black is probably already slightly better.
Dec 7, 2014
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#13
Dxc4 and b5 has been played twice before with a win and a draw for black, however im not so sure it's the proper way to play for black.
Dec 7, 2014
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#14
Hmm the mainline after Bd7 continues 6.h5 , a move that stockfish cringes at for some reason. It even prefers the ultra aggressive 6.f4!? as well as 6.Nc3, but idk how accurate the analysis is.
Also what's your opinion of the aggressive Bayonet Attack in the caro?
@pfren:
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Bd7 6.Be3 h5 7.g5!+= (Sutovsky) I've noticed, that White has a very good score with this variation in corr chess.
That's the reason I believe the variation 4.h4 h6 5.g4 Be4! 6.f3 Bh7 7.e6 Qd6! 8.exf7 Kf7 9.f4 Nf6 should be a better try.
Edit: Correct notation
Sorry for the little mistakes.
Dec 9, 2014
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#18
Looking on the 365chess database, that position has occurred 0 times.
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Bd7 6.Be3 h5 7.g5 Sutovsky vs. Ioardachescu, 2008
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Be4! 6.f3 Bh7 7.e6 Qd6! 8.exf7 Kf7 9.f4 Nf6 Muzychuk,A-Sutovsky, 2012 (Sutovsky commented this game for Chessbase)
pfren wrote:
NBKXX wrote:
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Bd7 6.Be3 h5 7.g5 Sutovsky vs. Ioardachescu, 2008
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Be4! 6.f3 Bh7 7.e6 Qd6! 8.exf7 Kf7 9.f4 Nf6 Muzychuk,A-Sutovsky, 2012 (Sutovsky commented this game for Chessbase)
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Bd7 6.Nc3! is more testing.
4.h4 h6 5.g4 Be4 6.f3 Bh7 7.e6 Qd6 8.f4 Nf6 9.Nf3 Nxg4 10.h5! gives white a very dangerous initiative for the pawn. Black tried to improve with 7...Nf6, and fell into this stunning French cooking recipe:
10.Kd2!! is an incredible move. An engine needs many minutes to realize that Black is in trouble.
10. Kd2?? is a waste of tempo. It accomplishes nothing.
Is the caveman worth using as your main weapon against the caro? I like the advance caro kann with white, and this line has been part of my repertoire for years..but recently I've been facing a system with Qb6 and ne7 that just puts me into an uncomfortable position and engines agree that whites struggling. Is this a bust to the caveman? Nf3 is a good alternative but h4 has been my baby since I can last remember...