Changing from the Dragon to the Najdorf

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BattleManager

Hello guys, so i've been playing the sicilian dragon for the past years with success but that's mainly because my opponents didn't play the yugoslav attack(only played against it once and had to play the dragondorf). I actually won that game with the dragondorf but i know that the opening is not that sound and i saw some lines that are dangerous for black. I will continue to use the dragon(against players that i know that don't use the yugoslav) but my rating is becoming higher and i will competing in more serious tournaments(national championships, etc) and i would like to try the najdorf. So i need your feedback: The dragon was quite tactic(even when not playing the yugoslav) and i would like to know if we can say the same about the najdorf? What are you opinions about the najdorf(how would you characterize the opening)? 

Give me some feedback, Najdorf fanboys(girls)Tongue out

BetaStrategy

Stick with the Dragon.

The plans are simpler, the tactics are more thematic, and the strategies and piece placements are more consistent across different Dragon lines than they are in the Najdorf.  Also, the Najdorf is no simpler, tactically.

The Najdorf may give a slight...SLIGHT...edge at the GM level.  But even there, you'll find Dragon devotees.

Until then, all the things that make the Dragon such a fun and interesting choice actually serve to make it a stronger defensive choice for most players than the Najdorf, since white is almost never going to be playing critical lines 15 moves deep against you.  Against anyone "just playing chess," a little knowledge of the Dragon will carry you along way easier than a little knowledge of most Sicilians will.

BattleManager
BetaStrategy wrote:

Stick with the Dragon.

The plans are simpler, the tactics are more thematic, and the strategies and piece placements are more consistent across different Dragon lines than they are in the Najdorf.  Also, the Najdorf is no simpler, tactically.

The Najdorf may give a slight...SLIGHT...edge at the GM level.  But even there, you'll find Dragon devotees.

Until then, all the things that make the Dragon such a fun and interesting choice actually serve to make it a stronger defensive choice for most players than the Najdorf, since white is almost never going to be playing critical lines 15 moves deep against you.  Against anyone "just playing chess," a little knowledge of the Dragon will carry you along way easier than a little knowledge of most Sicilians will.


I get what you say but i'm not that much afraid of a more tactical opening. I started playing the Dragon because it was way simpler than all other sicilians and the ideas were easy to follow but then i started looking deep into theory and there are some lines that i just can't memorize/don't like and i'm finding more and more good players that play the yugoslav.The dragondorf gives me a lot of fun but i'm afraid that it isn't sound anymore. I don't see anyone talking about it, simon williams no longer plays it and moved on to the french/najdorf, its popularity decreased in the past years, etc

chessnerdbird

I love playing the Najdorf and against it.  Now this is coming from someone who has never looked into the dragon or even played the dragon.  I think the Najdorf is the best variation though based on players that I've talked to from 1800 to GM.  

Lately, I have been studying the French exclusively because it fits my style a little better.  But if you want tactics then the Najdorf has it all.  I think you constantly have to be alert and there is never a time where you can relax on either side with the Najdorf.  

vlady92

With a rating <1000 you have existential questions such as Dragon/Najdorf? I didn't know the first two black moves in any Sicilian until I was able to defeat FIDE 1700 regularly! Sealed

BattleManager
vlady92 wrote:

With a rating <1000 you have existential questions such as Dragon/Najdorf? I didn't know the first two black moves in any Sicilian until I was able to defeat FIDE 1700 regularly!


I'm FIDE 1710 dude, i barely play in chess.com and the only game that i played here i lost because of time and i was a knight up.

vlady92

Ok, sorry then. Well, I would say to stick with the Dragon. At levels below FM, nobody will "refute" it. I've been a Najdorf tournament player for 3 years already and it never ceases to amaze me with its complexity (indeed, I'm now 1760 FIDE, but my Rating Performances are usually above 2000; that's my estimated strength now). However, if you decide to take up Najdorf, don't be disheartened if you lose some games at the beginning.

I would recommend the Starting Out: Najdorf (not the stupid Scheveningen hybrid).

Good luck!

vlady92

The following query on the FIDE website returns no results: Male, Portugal, born in 1990, rating 1710. Do you have a possible explanation for that? Just asking, I don't intend to become obnoxious.

BattleManager
vlady92 wrote:

The following query on the FIDE website returns no results: Male, Portugal, born in 1990, rating 1710. Do you have a possible explanation for that? Just asking, I don't intend to become obnoxious.


http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=1928198 Don't really understand why would you doubt of me? But ok.

myk99

I am in the same boat, Im 1800 USCF, Ive been playing that Dragon for a while, went to Acc Dragon, and Hyper Acc Dragon...Im running into people playing better and better against it all 1950+ players. I just bought the first 2 series of Kasparov on the Najdorf, had them for about 2 weeks now...great stuff!!  the biggest concern I have is the amount of non-casteling games black has. but other than that I love the opening.

BattleManager
myk99 wrote:

I am in the same boat, Im 1800 USCF, Ive been playing that Dragon for a while, went to Acc Dragon, and Hyper Acc Dragon...Im running into people playing better and better against it all 1950+ players. I just bought the first 2 series of Kasparov on the Najdorf, had them for about 2 weeks now...great stuff!!  the biggest concern I have is the amount of non-casteling games black has. but other than that I love the opening.


Nice, so from what you've seen so far, what are the main differences between the Dragon and the Najdorf? Kasparov gives a repertoire or he just analyzes the Najdorf in general?

vlady92

You can watch Kasparov's series on YouTube. It's with Spanish subtitles on some "Alfil..." channel. Just search for "Kasparov Najdorf alfil", you will get a lot of stuff. It's not a repertoire, but it's the analysis of the greatest chess player ever!

myk99

at 1st its really general, talks about this history (pure entertainment if nothing else) then he goes into different lines and instructional games. I would recommend it to anyone that is thinking about stepping into Najdorf grounds, didnt know you could watch it on youtube, I had looked for it everywhere and only found clips and previews. Id try that before paying for anything if your buget is tight. but its worth having the discs as a personal collection for me.

BattleManager

I'll watch it and then i'll be back to say what i think.

duniel

I am 1800+ FIDE and I switched from Najdorf to Dragon.

Dragon pros: I find Dragon thematically simpler, if your oponent do not play Yugoslav, you equalizes almost without effort. As for Yugoslav, if you will devote reasonable time to study, you can beat anyone, most of the players playing Yugoslav think that they will just beat you without thinking, h2-h4-h5 etc. If you know your theory well, you will outplay most of them. My favorite is Chinese dragon, I was able to beat players rated 300 points over me with that (OTB).

Dragon cons: Games are less instructive and monothonic. Zero chance to surprise your oponent strategically. White has given plan, black has given plan, who overcalculates his/her oponent, wins.

Najdorf pros: More strategically rich, many ideas you will learn in Najdorf can be used in different openings. Your chess skills and understanding will grow as you play and study Najdorf. Furthermore, you will derive much more pleasure from following GM games in Najdorf when you understand the openinig. Almost no one at top level plays Dragon, so no fun for Dragon devotees.

Najdorf cons: Problem with Najdorf is that white has zillion ways meeting Najdorf and unless you play 100 games per year, you will not master any of it and in every game find yourself at seas. If you have time to burn midnight oil, go ahead and learn it, but it is much more time consuming than Dragon.

Archerknight

The Najdorf is a good opening, but you need to know a whole body of theory if you're against someone good, or you'll get swept off the table.

I've never played the Dragon, but it seems to be a good opening, so you'll probably be better just learning how to play against the Yugoslav attack.


Edit: I play the Najdorf.

BattleManager

Ok, after reading all this comments telling me to stick with the dragon and after watching the first volume of kasparov's najdorf lectures i agree...I mean i liked what i saw, but i don't know how to explain, i just prefer the sicilian dragon's types of positions right now, though i may change to the najdorf later. So thank you guys for helping me out! Oh but i still have a problem, to play against the yugoslav i need to see if there are updates each month but i don't have a source...besides i think you have to pay to see chess publishing's games, if i'm not mistaken. I have Dearing's book but people say that the theory changed a lot. So if you know some possible source for updates on the dragon, plz tell me. I'll watch the other volumes of the Najdorf either way, they may be instructive.

duniel

I find Chris Ward's Winning With Sicilian Dragon very instructive. Andrew Martin in his Starting Out: Sicilian Dragon recommends Chinese Dragon which I think is a very reasonable choice. It is fairly new, not theoretically extensive, completely deadly when white is unprepared (and, believe me, he very often is) and most of all it is sound (played by Carlsen among others). You can master that in 1 hour and go on winning.

I really do not think that you need to follow monthly updates, reasonable database with strong engine to analyze will be sufficient. Do not spend too much time memorizing theory, 1700 or 2000 can spend this time more productively. Play 10-20 training Yugoslav-games to see what people play and do your prepration accordingly.

As for Najdorf, Arizmendi and Moreno's Mastering the Najdorf is great and also Tony Kosten's Easy Guide to Najdorf in which he recommends some great lines against former mainline Bg5 without the need of memorizing realms of theory of Poisnd Oawn and the like.

BattleManager
duniel wrote:

I find Chris Ward's Winning With Sicilian Dragon very instructive. Andrew Martin in his Starting Out: Sicilian Dragon recommends Chinese Dragon which I think is a very reasonable choice. It is fairly new, not theoretically extensive, completely deadly when white is unprepared (and, believe me, he very often is) and most of all it is sound (played by Carlsen among others). You can master that in 1 hour and go on winning.

I really do not think that you need to follow monthly updates, reasonable database with strong engine to analyze will be sufficient. Do not spend too much time memorizing theory, 1700 or 2000 can spend this time more productively. Play 10-20 training Yugoslav-games to see what people play and do your prepration accordingly.

As for Najdorf, Arizmendi and Moreno's Mastering the Najdorf is great and also Tony Kosten's Easy Guide to Najdorf in which he recommends some great lines against former mainline Bg5 without the need of memorizing realms of theory of Poisnd Oawn and the like.


What do you play in the Chinese Dragon if white plays 10.Bb3 instead of 10.0-0-0 ?

myk99

@ Duniel, well said, the pros and cons are spot on. Ive got plenty of "midnight oil" to burn. hahahaha. 

If there is fear of the Yugoslav attack but you want to continue playing the Dragon, try looking into the Acc Dragon/Hyper Acc dragon, the main idea there is to reserve the d5 thrust as one movement rather than d6-d5 placing you a tempo up, but there are other sidelines you might want to look into ie.  Rossolimo/Moroxy bind....and if hyper acc dragon 4.Qxd4.