Difference between the Closed Sicilian and the Kings Indian Attack?

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Zinester54

I have noticed that white's position in the Closed Sicilian is pretty much identical to white's position in the Kings Indian Attack, yet I was told by a Master that white's middlegame goals and tactics are very different. In both cases white usually plays an eventual (or early) f4 and goes for a kingside attack. I could study both openings in depth and compare them, or I could appeal to the extensive knowledge and experience of Chessdotcom players. IS there a difference for white between playing the Closed Sicilian and playing the Kings Indian Attack?

ThrillerFan

One major difference is White's Queen's Knight.

 

Closed Sicilian - Nc3

KIA - Nd2

 

Also, f4 is common in the Closed Sicilian - often bad in the KIA and h4 is played instead.

 

The Closed Sicilian main lines involve c5, Nc6, g6, Bg7, and d6 by Black.

The Kings Indian Attack, while "technically" playable against anything but the Scandinavian, is completely innocuous if Black has not played ...e6.  It works well against the French and 2...e6-Sicilians.  Against 1...e5, 1...Nf6, 1...c6, 1...c5/2...d6, it is equal at best (yes, at best, not at worst) for White.

Zinester54

Thank you. That is very helpful. 👍

Krames
The best player I ever knew, amazing player out in the parks of NYC, played the closed Sicilian beautifully. I asked him once about the KIA. He said that the queens knight on c3 and the kings knight on e2 allowed him to ‘organize his pieces’ far more efficiently than the normal KIA knight set up. I’m a lousy 1500 rapid player and I find the same to be true for me. Pushing f4 in a closed Sicilian or Vienna type position is an easier plan for me to work with than pushing e5 and the normal KIA plans. Good luck!
tygxc

"IS there a difference for white between playing the Closed Sicilian and playing the Kings Indian Attack?"
++ There are similarities, but the main difference is the center. In the King's Indian Attack the white pawn is on e5, in the Closed Sicilian the white pawn stays at e4.
It is not that one is better than the other.
Smyslov and Spassky have scored nice wins with the Closed Sicilian.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1318001 
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1128807 
Fischer has scored nice wins with the King's Indian Attack.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044267 

swarminglocusts

I don’t like studying the Sicilian defense because the books say it’s refuted and don’t cover it. online sources mainly show how white can play for an advantage. I switched to the Alekhine variation after exploring both openings.

As black in the closed Sicilian he can play a hedgehog pawn structure against any anti-Sicilian which is one plus for black, however, it is drawish in the moroxczy bind setups another reason I abandoned the Sicilian.

Lastly, if you want complicated games the Sicilian and the KID have plenty of pluses to play them for a win.

ThrillerFan
swarminglocusts wrote:

I don’t like studying the Sicilian defense because the books say it’s refuted and don’t cover it. online sources mainly show how white can play for an advantage. I switched to the Alekhine variation after exploring both openings.

As black in the closed Sicilian he can play a hedgehog pawn structure against any anti-Sicilian which is one plus for black, however, it is drawish in the moroxczy bind setups another reason I abandoned the Sicilian.

Lastly, if you want complicated games the Sicilian and the KID have plenty of pluses to play them for a win.

 

I Call BS!

What book, what page, claims the Sicilian is Refuted?

Stupidest thing I've ever heard on chess.com!

Krames
@Thriller…..Thank you!!!
swarminglocusts
The closed Sicilian is considered refuted by Andrew Soltises Pawn Structure in Chess book.
swarminglocusts
He claims it is refuted for white I might add for clarification.
ThrillerFan

Once again I call bullsh*t.

Just because Black happened to win the 3 Closed Sicilian Games displayed on pages 271, 281, and 284, does not constitute a refutation.  Nowhere does Soltis say it is refuted.  Just because he displayed 3 games that Black won because White failed to follow the right idea does not constitute a refutation.

 

SMH (more like SMFH)!

swarminglocusts

I no longer have access to his text, but the c3 defense against the sicilian does not offer a great advantage at the highest level. However, it is playable. I just remember reading Soltis's text saying white is not better in whites opening and that is why people aren't covering it.

Krames
We’re talking about nc3, not c3……
swarminglocusts

Sorry.

 

ThrillerFan
swarminglocusts wrote:

I no longer have access to his text, but the c3 defense against the sicilian does not offer a great advantage at the highest level. However, it is playable. I just remember reading Soltis's text saying white is not better in whites opening and that is why people aren't covering it.

 

Clearly you don't know enough to make any valid argument.  You cannot even identify the Closed Sicilian.  You say "but the c3 defense ...".  First off, White is not the one defending.  Second, the Closed Sicilian does not see c3 played until way later.  Try Nc3!

 

SMH!