In your game I was a bit surprised at first to see 8 Qe2, I thought everyone goes 8 a3 (that's what they always played against me). But research indicates many high rated players have used 8 Qe2, obviously preparing 0-0-0. You played really well, your opponent should go 13 Ne1 to defend c2, though 13 Rc1 could make do. SF says it's equal after 13 Ne1 but it looks somewhat scary for white to me. He chose to defend c2 in a different way.
does the Scandinavian actually work??
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in the miniature, 11) Nd5,... invites complications for black.
Jun 29, 2023
0
#104
Yes, 8.a3 is the most common...it's what I see mostly as well. The only thing I recalled from the notes I had made when preparing my repertoire (probably a couple of months earlier), was to play ...Nc6 "against about anything" and after 10.a3 ...Ba3 seemed natural. More precise would have been 12...b5, but it's a 3 min game. Those are far more about letting your intuition guide you than anything else.
Jun 29, 2023
0
#105
11. Nd5 just leaves White a pawn down I think 9.0-0-0 was too much to ask of the White position.
11) Nd5, Qa4 12)NxN+, gxf6 13)Bb3, Bxb2+ 14)Kxb2,Qa6 15)QxQ, bxa6 16)Ra1,Nb8 and I didn't calculate past there. white gets the bishop for two pawns.
Jun 29, 2023
0
#107
UnsidesteppableChess wrote:
Cornfed,
Speaking of percentages, you might already know but I was wondering if you are aware that in a main line after 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qa5 4 d4 Nf6 5 Nf3 Bf5 6 Bc4 that 6...e6 is the modern way of playing instead of the 6...c6 that was very popular for a long time. 6...e6 saves the c6 square for a possible ...Nc6 and prepares to answer 7 Bd2 with 7...Bb4. 6...c6 scores 43% for black, 6...e6 scores 47%.
Both moves are perfectly sound. Here's a recent 2800-level game:
Caruana vs Mamedyarov (2019) Croatia Grand Chess Tour 2019 (365chess.com)
Jun 29, 2023
0
#108
chessterd5 wrote:
11) Nd5, Qa4 12)NxN+, gxf6 13)Bb3, Bxb2+ 14)Kxb2,Qa6 15)QxQ, bxa6 16)Ra1,Nb8 and I didn't calculate past there. white gets the bishop for two pawns.
Sorry simply 11...Bb4 threatens mate and thus forces more material off. White remains a pawn down with a weaker King. Your 11...Qa4 pretty much loses for Black by force after 12. Bb3.
blueemu wrote:
UnsidesteppableChess wrote:
Cornfed,
Speaking of percentages, you might already know but I was wondering if you are aware that in a main line after 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qa5 4 d4 Nf6 5 Nf3 Bf5 6 Bc4 that 6...e6 is the modern way of playing instead of the 6...c6 that was very popular for a long time. 6...e6 saves the c6 square for a possible ...Nc6 and prepares to answer 7 Bd2 with 7...Bb4. 6...c6 scores 43% for black, 6...e6 scores 47%.
Both moves are perfectly sound. Here's a recent 2800-level game:
Caruana vs Mamedyarov (2019) Croatia Grand Chess Tour 2019 (365chess.com)
Mamedyarov plays the 3...Qa5 Scandi from time to time. I watched him use it live against the female GM Kosteniuk in a game not long ago (I don't recall the time control). He won. It was the 8 a3 Bxc3 9 Bxc3 Qb6 as in the Caruana game you linked.
Jun 29, 2023
0
#110
UnsidesteppableChess wrote: Mamedyarov plays the 3...Qa5 Scandi from time to time. I watched him use it live against the female GM Kosteniuk in a game not long ago (I don't recall the time control). He won. It was the 8 a3 Bxc3 9 Bxc3 Qb6 as in the Caruana game you linked.
The Qa5 and c6 Scandi (which is a bit out of fashion nowadays, compared to the e6 line) is basically just a way of transposing into a Caro-Kann - type position while avoiding White's most aggressive replies to the direct Caro-Kann... such as the Advance, the Panov-Botvinnik, the Tal, etc.
In the Caro-Kann, after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. Nf3 Nd7 8. h5 Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 we have this Pawn structure:
In the old mainline of the Scandi, after 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c6 6. Bc4 Bf5 7. Bd2 e6 we reach this Pawn structure:
Obviously the two openings are closely related.
yeah but dont forget in the Qa5 scandi white often gets a major lead in development and a weak e6 square to target
because black gives a bunch of free tempos to white which allows him to be way ahead in development
Jun 30, 2023
0
#114
AngryPuffer wrote:
because black gives a bunch of free tempos to white which allows him to be way ahead in development
What "bunch of free tempos"? This is a very, very common misconception, and I think it should be straightened out.
Count the moves, but only for the pieces that remain on the board.
In the main-line Caro-Kann, BLACK (not White) is the one who loses a tempo early.
That happens because after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 the Black d-Pawn has moved TWICE (d7-d5 and then d5xe4) and then disappeared from the board, captured... TAKING THOSE TWO TEMPI WITH IT. In return, White's e-Pawn only moved ONCE (e2-e4) before being taken, so when it was captured it only took ONE move with it, instead of two.
Black trades a d-Pawn and two moves for a White e-Pawn and one move... Black loses a move. Not White.
Conversely, in the Scandinavian it's exactly the other way around. White's e-Pawn moves TWICE (e2-e4 and then e4xd5) before being captured, while Black's d-Pawn only moved ONCE (d7-d5) before being captured.
WHITE, not Black, is the one who loses a tempo in the early opening of the Scandinavian. He trades his e-Pawn and two moves for Black's d-Pawn and one move.
I cannot understand where this "Black loses a tempo" claim comes from... it's precisely 180 degrees wrong... it is WHITE, not Black, who loses a move, because of the Pawn exchange.
Now... of course you will point out that White's Nc3 forces the Black Queen to move again, "losing a tempo"... but please COUNT!
In the Caro-Kann, Black goes DOWN a tempo on the Pawn exchange (trading a Black Pawn and two moves for a White Pawn and one move). In the Scandinavian, Black goes UP a tempo on the Pawn exchange (trading a Black Pawn and one move for a White Pawn and two moves).
That's a difference of TWO TEMPI... the difference between (-1) and (+1) is TWO POINTS, not one.
... so even when Black has to move his Queen away after White's Nc3 (losing back one of the two tempi that he gained) that STILL leaves him a move up over the Caro-Kann!
Black isn't losing time... he's GAINING time!
... but everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) talks as if the Scandinavian involves a LOSS of time. Precisely 180 degrees wrong!
Jun 30, 2023
0
#115
In the Scandinavian Defense your queen gets chased around the board. Black loses a LOT of time.
Jun 30, 2023
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#116
The new Chessbase Magazine #214 has a supposed 'Bust' to the 'modern' Scandi mainline'. I subscribe, but haven't downloaded it yet - waiting to get a new computer before I download the last few.
I see the preview. It's a line I've already prepped, but at some point will check to see if their 'bust' holds up. I know no one have ever played it against me in blitz or otherwise.
Cornfed, you are correct. more material comes off the board and black stays a pawn up. this encourages me to continue studying the Qa5 line of the Scandinavian.
Jun 30, 2023
0
#118
Oh, @beaverchess - time is sometimes an 'illusion' that haunts weaker players because of words found in all the beginner books. Think about this: That Nc3 - it has to move at some point because it blocks logical play by White - to play c4 and contest the d5 square. Scandi players know this. So, White 'loses tempi' there and things like this can help balance out the 'war of the tempi'. Chess is...well, not so easy as to play it with mere platitudes. John Watson wrote a book called...think it's Modern Chess Strategy which deals with similar old school 'rules'.
blueemu wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
because black gives a bunch of free tempos to white which allows him to be way ahead in development
What "bunch of free tempos"? This is a very, very common misconception, and I think it should be straightened out.
Count the moves, but only for the pieces that remain on the board.
In the main-line Caro-Kann, BLACK (not White) is the one who loses a tempo early.
That happens because after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 the Black d-Pawn has moved TWICE (d7-d5 and then d5xe4) and then disappeared from the board, captured... TAKING THOSE TWO TEMPI WITH IT. In return, White's e-Pawn only moved ONCE (e2-e4) before being taken, so when it was captured it only took ONE move with it, instead of two.
Black trades a d-Pawn and two moves for a White e-Pawn and one move... Black loses a move. Not White.
Conversely, in the Scandinavian it's exactly the other way around. White's e-Pawn moves TWICE (e2-e4 and then e4xd5) before being captured, while Black's d-Pawn only moved ONCE (d7-d5) before being captured.
WHITE, not Black, is the one who loses a tempo in the early opening of the Scandinavian. He trades his e-Pawn and two moves for Black's d-Pawn and one move.
I cannot understand where this "Black loses a tempo" claim comes from... it's precisely 180 degrees wrong... it is WHITE, not Black, who loses a move, because of the Pawn exchange.
Now... of course you will point out that White's Nc3 forces the Black Queen to move again, "losing a tempo"... but please COUNT!
In the Caro-Kann, Black goes DOWN a tempo on the Pawn exchange (trading a Black Pawn and two moves for a White Pawn and one move). In the Scandinavian, Black goes UP a tempo on the Pawn exchange (trading a Black Pawn and one move for a White Pawn and two moves).
That's a difference of TWO TEMPI... the difference between (-1) and (+1) is TWO POINTS, not one.
... so even when Black has to move his Queen away after White's Nc3 (losing back one of the two tempi that he gained) that STILL leaves him a move up over the Caro-Kann!
Black isn't losing time... he's GAINING time!
... but everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) talks as if the Scandinavian involves a LOSS of time. Precisely 180 degrees wrong!
When you complain about the d-pawn moving twice to capture, you somehow, someway just forgot that the Knight has to move a second time. You also failed to realize that black uses a tempi recapturing with the queen, so take a closer look.
In the Scandinavian
It is black to move and white is up 2 tempi. He has two bishops opened up and one piece developed, while all black has is one bishop open
Now look at the mainline caro-kann.
It is black to move, and white is up one tempi. They are equal in development, but white has opened both of his bishops.
Even if white plays the Nf3 line, the caro and scandi are equal in tempi.
Really, we should just avoid this issue altogether and just play the Sicilian.
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
When you complain about the d-pawn moving twice to capture, you somehow, someway just forgot that the Knight has to move a second time. You also failed to realize that black uses a tempi recapturing with the queen, so take a closer look.
In the Scandinavian
It is black to move and white is up 2 tempi. He has two bishops opened up and one piece developed, while all black has is one bishop open
The tempo win is not as clear as it seems.
Black has coerced White into misplacing his knight on c3. The knight is blocking White's c-pawn, thus weakening White's control of the d5 square.
(Generally speaking, White "wants" his c-pawn on c4, next to his d4 pawn. He doesn't want his c-pawn blocked on c2 by his own piece.)
White will have to move his c3 knight again, later in the game, if he wants to activate his c-pawn. Otherwise, Black will secure a positional bind on the d5 square with his c6+e6 pawns.
Like many things in chess, it's not as clear-cut as it appears on first glance. For both players, there are things given, and things taken away ...
I became aware of it in the book The Scandinavian for Club Players.