Drawing line against the Catalan

The drawback of that setup is that White has the strong move Ne5, eyeing on f6, and if Black plays Bb7, then White has Qa5 very strong. Then if Black plays Nbd7, White has Nf6 and Black's position is somewhat worse. This is especially sharp when the Black King has not castled yet.

I do not think that b6 is a particularly good setup for Black against the Catalan.

Again, this is very vague analysis do you mean playing 7ne5 instead of very natural 7bg2? Am struggling to see what threats what you are proposing is generating. Also have castled already in line being discussed, so can't really make head or tail out of what you are saying. It is possibly more accurate to play 6...Nbd7 first before castling but don't think matters too much much. Carlson has played this exchange line quite often, most recently in London candidates tournament. Back in 80's Ulf Anderson played hundreds of games with it. So think you are in dream land if think can bust it so easily.

1.d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3Nf3 d5 4g3 b6 is another matter, no FIDE 2700+ is playing that. The usual d4 player 5pxp tranposes into a not particularly promising QueensIndian line for black, and several other possibilties look good for white.

Oh, I see... so maybe Perelshteyn and Dzindzichashvili are a piece of crap that do not know anything about chess when they recommend that move. Maybe we should credit your comments instead and discard those GMs's ones.

 again which move 7Ne5, or 4... b6, or some other... Really amazes me how some of you guys try to do analysis without being clear which positions and moves talking about. 

Dzindzichashvili was a very strong player, ranked third in world some point in 80's but is written analysis is well-known to be baised and pumped out quickly to get money. Thought his Nimzo/Bogo Indian book was meant to reasonable though if getting infomation from that?

Looking at it again, you are maybe thinking about Ne5 in the 4...b6 line, that looks more reasonable. If that the case, sorry but it wasn't clear to me what position you were talking about.

And again, maybe you are talking about the Catalan from Black's point of view. I am from White's point of view. To the Bb4+ in the Catalan White never replies blocking with the knight but with the bishop. That's the spirit of the catalan. Then you retake with the knight and the Queen remains in the a5-d1 diagonal.

If Black develops with b6 without taking on c4, then after White castles Ne5 is definitely a good move (actually that move can be seen in 90% of all Catalan lines - it is thematic), and Qa5 exploits the hole on f6. This is the position I am talking about, believe it or not. I am not saying that White is winning or that he has a huge advantage, but Black definitely has a worse position, and he's gonna waste a couple of moves before kicking that king back to... its awesome square on d5:

Not winning, of course it is not, but Black runs into unnecesary complications in the very first moves because of that move order (taking the long diagonal without taking on c4 first).

If Carlsen has played that line with Black and beat whoever, that is OK. Carlsen is an awesome SGM, but that does not mean that b6 is the best line against the Catalan.

I do not know if you play the Catalan with White, but I do, and you can trust me on that - b6 is far from being challenging to White's Catalan setup.

Regards,

Yes looking at it again think both agree 4...b6 isn't so good, 5Ne5 and a later Qa4ch as in your previous comments look quite reasonable. So it looks like their was a misunderstanding what position was being talked about. To avoid this developing into a flame war, I appologise if I upset you.

No worries, you did not upset me. I also apologize if I did. Next time I will try to post a diagram in order to avoid confusion 

Regards.

You are VERY optimistic for Black in that line. White has way better moves in the line that you propose.

I agree. In fact, the b6 system is probably the least popular among strong GMs. However, it is easy to learn.

Is it really that much different than what you normally get in a Tartakower?

...and let me add.  It is a solid and tough nut formation.

Gotta study openings that you're serious about playing long-term. There is no good shortcut to that.

Yes, in the tartakower white can aim for similar pawn structure. However, needs to play BxNf6 so that when plays c4xd5, black captures with a pawn. Also loses a few tempos getting white square bishop on g2 diagonal. Nevertheless Korchnoi and others caused black a few problems for sometime. The attraction of playing the 4...b6 system where white has setup immediately isn't obvious to me. 

It provides a temporary shelter while one is still learning more competitive systems.

This system was offered to someone who is new to the black side of this and who is struggling as black vs the Catalan.

It was offered as a simple place to begin to learn how to play vs the Catalan.  It is a fine place to start as Black for someone new to the Catalan from the Black side.

Yes.

Just curious did you find this "b6 system" from the Learning Group, where a guy called Michael-G avocated it for use against anything 1.d4, or somewhere else?

I found it in Bologan's book and DVD, in which Bologan explains how to face the b6 system as white.

Looked at it a bit in first chapter of Bologan's book now, and didn't see much that was attractive for black. The normal convention is Author's put least problembatic chapter's first, and within chapter least critical varations first. Bologan covers 1.d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nf3 Nf6 4g3 be7 5bg2 0.0 60.0 pxp 7Qc2 a6 etc last, and has the most number of pages attempting to show something for white. So chould interpret that as his recommendation for the "drawing line".