It is trash.
"Earth-Shaking" Question for 2000+ players
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6 hrs ago
0
#3
68-JWST wrote:
Hey folks,
As the lowest rated guy at my local chess club, I've realized I lose most OTB games against 1.d4. My trusty Dutch Defense with a queen-side fianchetto used to be my weapon, but now "hard players" are making better moves (ouch! Pun intended!). I'm struggling to get an opening advantage and end up losing due to small endgame mistakes. Looking for a new opening that'll give Black a better shot. Any suggestions against 1.d4?
Is the Dutch Defense really that good at the top level (within 2000-2200) or am I just playing it wrong?
I play the Dutch and currently Over the Board I am 2069.
The queenside fianchetto only works if White doesn't fianchetto first, and before you can fianchetto, you need to have the light squares solidly covered. Something like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 b6 is a mistake.
Before you attempt to play ...b6 and ...Bb7, you need to play, in some order, ...f5, ...Nf6, and ...e6. What order you do that in depends on what sidelines you can tolerate. By playing 1.d4 f5, you need to have knowledge of what to do against 2.e4, 2.g4, 2.Nc3, and 2.Bg5, By playing 1...e6 first, you have to be willing to play the French if White plays 2.e4. 2.Bg5 and 2.g4 are stupid, and 2.Nc3 can be answered by 2...Bb4!
What you do after those 3 moves depends on what White has done:
1) If White has played g3 by move 4 or earlier, you have to go for either a Stonewall or Classical. On the flip side, ONLY if White has played g3 should you go Stonewall or Classical. Which one you play is personal preference. I play both, but far more often I play the Stonewall.
2) If White has played d4, c4, Nc3 and Nf3, where the Knight can no longer go to e2, then Black should play 4...Bb4! It plays similar to a Nimzo-Indian (the line with 4...b6 where Black plays 7...Ne4 and 8...f5), but with ...f5 already played, no need to go Ne4 unless there is another purpose for the move besides just getting the f-pawn out.
3) If White has not played g3 AND White has not played d4/c4/Nc3/Nf3, then your answer is 4...b6!
4) A little known line against the London that you should know. 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bf4 Nf6 4.e3 b6 5.Bd3 Bb7 6.O-O Be7 7.Nbd2 O-O 8.h3 (or 8.Re1), Black should play NOT 8...Ne4, but rather, 8...Be4! It prevents White from cutting off the Bishop's control of e4 via d5, and White cannot take with the Knight on d2 as Black takes with the pawn with a fork. This gets rid of White's good Bishop, and then depending on how White follows, Black can often get a Stonewall setup with the bad bishop gone.
Hope this helps.
5 hrs ago
0
#5
you could certainly play this at even the highest levels , but if you facing stronger players, you will face more and more challenging replies. As thriller correctly pointed out, with black (unlike the bird opening with white) you simply dont have the luxury to always play for the queen flank from dutch positions in which case you need to revert back to some other formation like the classical dutch, leningrad or the stonewall. Even when you can play for the flank it is not always particularly good. you will also start facing more opponents who play early d4-d5 which requires some obstuse development from black. Then there is the existential question of what to do with the queen knight in those positions.
If you losing in the endgame you seem to be at least surviving the opening. Your options are 1. learn the opening really well, preferably get a good book or course on it, 2. learn a different defense, 3.both. I recommend all players to have at least two replies vs 1.d4, and at least one of those should be a "safe" one . dutch is not "unsound" but i certainly woudnt call it safe.
ThrillerFan wrote:
68-JWST wrote:
Hey folks,
As the lowest rated guy at my local chess club, I've realized I lose most OTB games against 1.d4. My trusty Dutch Defense with a queen-side fianchetto used to be my weapon, but now "hard players" are making better moves (ouch! Pun intended!). I'm struggling to get an opening advantage and end up losing due to small endgame mistakes. Looking for a new opening that'll give Black a better shot. Any suggestions against 1.d4?
Is the Dutch Defense really that good at the top level (within 2000-2200) or am I just playing it wrong?
I play the Dutch and currently Over the Board I am 2069.
The queenside fianchetto only works if White doesn't fianchetto first, and before you can fianchetto, you need to have the light squares solidly covered. Something like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 b6 is a mistake.
Before you attempt to play ...b6 and ...Bb7, you need to play, in some order, ...f5, ...Nf6, and ...e6. What order you do that in depends on what sidelines you can tolerate. By playing 1.d4 f5, you need to have knowledge of what to do against 2.e4, 2.g4, 2.Nc3, and 2.Bg5, By playing 1...e6 first, you have to be willing to play the French if White plays 2.e4. 2.Bg5 and 2.g4 are stupid, and 2.Nc3 can be answered by 2...Bb4!
What you do after those 3 moves depends on what White has done:
1) If White has played g3 by move 4 or earlier, you have to go for either a Stonewall or Classical. On the flip side, ONLY if White has played g3 should you go Stonewall or Classical. Which one you play is personal preference. I play both, but far more often I play the Stonewall.
2) If White has played d4, c4, Nc3 and Nf3, where the Knight can no longer go to e2, then Black should play 4...Bb4! It plays similar to a Nimzo-Indian (the line with 4...b6 where Black plays 7...Ne4 and 8...f5), but with ...f5 already played, no need to go Ne4 unless there is another purpose for the move besides just getting the f-pawn out.
3) If White has not played g3 AND White has not played d4/c4/Nc3/Nf3, then your answer is 4...b6!
4) A little known line against the London that you should know. 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bf4 Nf6 4.e3 b6 5.Bd3 Bb7 6.O-O Be7 7.Nbd2 O-O 8.h3 (or 8.Re1), Black should play NOT 8...Ne4, but rather, 8...Be4! It prevents White from cutting off the Bishop's control of e4 via d5, and White cannot take with the Knight on d2 as Black takes with the pawn with a fork. This gets rid of White's good Bishop, and then depending on how White follows, Black can often get a Stonewall setup with the bad bishop gone.
Hope this helps.
Thanks. I didn't know about the London line.
2 hrs ago
0
#7
ThrillerFan wrote:
The queenside fianchetto only works if White doesn't fianchetto first, and before you can fianchetto, you need to have the light squares solidly covered. Something like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 b6 is a mistake.
Hope this helps.
Hi,
can you explain precisely why 2...b6 is a mistake? How should white respond? White's not forcing in e4 anytime soon. The "main" move is 3 Nc3. Yes I am fully, completely aware of the engine recommendation, which seems to exploit b6 as a "tempo loss" but let's just ignore that engines exist for a bit, and talk on human terms, because no white player is going to play the engine move without direct targeted prep vs a specific player.
In the database, there are higher rated players playing this move order as black than as white (2300-2400's, versus 2279 as white!).
Hey folks,
As the lowest rated guy at my local chess club, I've realized I lose most OTB games against 1.d4. My trusty Dutch Defense with a queen-side fianchetto used to be my weapon, but now "hard players" are making better moves (ouch! Pun intended!). I'm struggling to get an opening advantage and end up losing due to small endgame mistakes. Looking for a new opening that'll give Black a better shot. Any suggestions against 1.d4?
Is the Dutch Defense really that good at the top level (within 2000-2200) or am I just playing it wrong?