END your 1.d4/London/closed game/positional woes forever with 1.d4 e5!? 2.dxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6!

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Avatar of Optimissed

No, a real gambit player would play f6. After all, this is only good for blitz anyway. So the right move is Bf4.

Avatar of gik-tally
Optimissed wrote:

No, a real gambit player would play f6. After all, this is only good for blitz anyway. So the right move is Bf4.

not me. f6 is UGLY! NORMALLY, you DO block Bg5 with f6, but not when there's a pawn on e5 ready to rip one's castle open and surrender development. Qd7 has better stats. I'd block with the bishop to keep developing and trade pieces. it might surrender 0-0-0 plans after 5.Bxe7 Nxe7 6.exd6 cxd6.

an isolated pawn is better than opening one's castle up in the opening, and inviting Qh5+ to further wreck the pawn structure. I don't agree with stalefish about f6.

If i'm going to gambit material, it's for attack, not throwing pawns and pieces at a problem until it goes away and creates a new one

besides, if white isn't calculating, there's POTENTIAL to win the exchange on g5 if white's careless and plays something like Nc3

when my opponent puts too much pressure on my position, I'll try to exchange. I get right in queens' faces when they're too much in my space. the OPPOSITE of removing a defender... remove the attacker.

Avatar of GYG

If black wants to play ...f6 in the Englund, he can do it as early as move 2.

e.g.

Avatar of infinityducks
1983B-Boy wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

No, a real gambit player would play f6. After all, this is only good for blitz anyway. So the right move is Bf4.

not me. f6 is UGLY! NORMALLY, you DO block Bg5 with f6, but not when there's a pawn on e5 ready to rip one's castle open and surrender development. Qd7 has better stats. I'd block with the bishop to keep developing and trade pieces. it might surrender 0-0-0 plans after 5.Bxe7 Nxe7 6.exd6 cxd6.

an isolated pawn is better than opening one's castle up in the opening, and inviting Qh5+ to further wreck the pawn structure. I don't agree with stalefish about f6.

If i'm going to gambit material, it's for attack, not throwing pawns and pieces at a problem until it goes away and creates a new one

besides, if white isn't calculating, there's POTENTIAL to win the exchange on g5 if white's careless and plays something like Nc3

when my opponent puts too much pressure on my position, I'll try to exchange. I get right in queens' faces when they're too much in my space. the OPPOSITE of removing a defender... remove the attacker.

Just play the Semi-Slav or Benko Gambit lol I mean you don't get much more attacking than the Semi-Slav (well, botvinnik) and the e5 d6 thing isn't bad but when they don't accept it's quite ugly

Avatar of gik-tally
RivertonKnight wrote:

I play this junk myself knowing full well it is junk, and I see the allure but don't fall for the illusion of great things from this opening scheme

the GREAT THING about this opening is that it lets me do MY THING MY WAY. it's an opening I understand and that doesn't leave me screaming in rage trapped behind my own pawns every effing game as with the (OMG I hate it!) slav-wall. open center, lead in development, SUPER MOBILITY. what's so hard for people to understand? I despise fianchettos, so this is the ONLY game in town FOR ME.

I've begged and begged and effing BEGGED for an opening EXACTLY LIKE THIS for over a decade and quit chess because no one thought to suggest it.

it's the ONLY... I repeat ONLY line that i like to play as black! eff the skankinavian and skankwall!!!

eff indians, benko and anything else with a fianchetto!

eff closed lines

eff positional lines!!!! (and eff everybody that keeps trying to steer me AWAY from my FAVORITE line and into more crap I despise!) you don't want to play it, don't, but I found a life partner that SPEAKS MY LANGUAGE unlike all the JUNK you all recommend. unless there's something MORE open and tactical without VILE DESPICABLE fianchettos, there's nothing more my style vs 1.d4 than THIS.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

BTW I have my first win with my advance variation "book line" with ...f5 & ...Bc5 after losing my 1st attempt, though my stats are winning so far against 2.d5.

I freakin' HATED this boxed in game even though I won. just like the -2 points and everyone's disdain for the hartlaub charlick, 2.e5 comes with the territory, and I'll have to deal with it. If EVERYONE played this, I might be inclined to quit chess again for lack of fun and excitement
Avatar of infinityducks
Avatar of gik-tally

that's a good line apparently, looking at it, and failing with Be7 instead of moving my queen, which I didn't like because I want it off the d file, but FORTUNATELY no-one has ever played this line against me YET. I have seen 4.Bf4 three times though

that's my point to all the haters. a line that no one actually plays is just a boogey man! I won't waste any time on what COULD, but never does happen, and even if it DID, victory is by no means guaranteed for white with just a 2 pawn advantage

OK... i've played 3...Bg4, so far. it has slightly better stats, and i've won 3 out of my 5 games with THAT. oh, I've won 2 out of 3 games with ...Nc6 too, I see.

it's nice having to tools to fight a "fair fight", even 2 points down.

here's how all three of my 3.Nc6 games went

just giving an opponent an advantage doesn't mean they'll capitalize on it and I'm an above average attacker. It makes ZERO SENSE to play openings that don't maximize attacking potential. once I get mobility and initiative, that's how I win MY games. 
 
funny, the one game I DID lose in this line, my accuracy was 67% to my opponent's 57%. oh well
 
 
Avatar of Optimissed
GYG wrote:

If black wants to play ...f6 in the Englund, he can do it as early as move 2.

e.g.

After 2. ... f6, I'd play 3. e4 and black could be in a lot of trouble.

Avatar of gik-tally

here's my stats winning where "i'm supposed to be losing"

funny how I'm destroying opponents at a DISADVANTAGE in a "dubious opening"

playing "the best moves" doesn't seem to be panning out for white any better than the JUICY main lines

*cough cough cough cough*

eventually there comes a point where both players just have to play chess. I'm so happy to actually be able to PLAY some chess as black FOR ONCE with tools like this machine gun where I was going into battle with a limp strand of pasta before. breathing room, initiative and mobility. that's ALL I want in chess. keep the pawns

don't care if I have a winning record with the scandinavian... I still hate it and am happier playing king's gambit despite slight losing stats.

Avatar of Optimissed

This is a possible continuation after f6 on the second move. Played after Bg5 though, it's completely fine.

Avatar of Optimissed
1983B-Boy wrote:

here's my stats winning where "i'm supposed to be losing"

funny how I'm destroying opponents at a DISADVANTAGE in a "dubious opening"

playing "the best moves" doesn't seem to be panning out for white any better than the JUICY main lines

*cough cough cough cough*

eventually there comes a point where both players just have to play chess. I'm so happy to actually be able to PLAY some chess as black FOR ONCE with tools like this machine gun where I was going into battle with a limp strand of pasta before. breathing room, initiative and mobility. that's ALL I want in chess. keep the pawns

don't care if I have a winning record with the scandinavian... I still hate it and am happier playing king's gambit despite slight losing stats.

If you're consistently winning then you aren't playing against any good players.

Avatar of gik-tally

hmm... looks like a reversed BDG kind of, but it's stats are a bit worse than the hartlaub charlick.

BTW... the 2...Nc6 main line is FUGLY to me, what with the hemmed in bishop virtually forcing a fianchetto, and those 53:42 Stats in 1m games? NOPE! INVITING white to play 5.Nd5 is sheer stoopidity to me too. that's probably why I never considered the englund until I saw the hatlaub charlick. THAT ONE makes perfect sense TO ME

Avatar of gik-tally

4.Bf4 has strong stats too, but NO ONE has played that against me yet

I HAVE lost all 3 of my 2.c4 games, but I haven't studied the albin counter gambit yet. THAT's another selling point for the EHC... I always wanted to play the albin, but THOUGHT I needed a fianchetto based repertoire to go with it, but in the EHC, it's the second most common 2nd move and a nice little side line!
 
i didn't know to chase 4.Bf4 with 4...g5!? in the game I actually thought to push ...d4. oh well.
 
it's like the goering gambit "bonus" playing the double danish... 2 gambits for the price of 1
Avatar of Optimissed
1983B-Boy wrote:

hmm... looks like a reversed BDG kind of, but it's stats are a bit worse than the hartlaub charlick.

BTW... the 2...Nc6 main line is FUGLY to me, what with the hemmed in bishop virtually forcing a fianchetto, and those 53:42 Stats in 1m games? NOPE! INVITING white to play 5.Nd5 is sheer stoopidity to me too. that's probably why I never considered the englund until I saw the hatlaub charlick. THAT ONE makes perfect sense TO ME

I play Bf4. Nc3 is no good ... Bf4 has to be main line. What's even the point of Nc3?

Avatar of gik-tally

do you mean the 2...Nc6 englund mainline,

or do you mean 2.Nf3 as white, the reversed alekhine?

Avatar of Optimissed

I want to protect the extra pawn twice to force black into a bad line such as Qb4 or to force black to gambit disadvantageously. ....Nc6 is normal I suppose.

Avatar of gik-tally

I just got sidelined good, but have completed my homework, if not studied it yet

Avatar of infinityducks

I think the d6 line is ok, much better than the nc6 englund, because as your games show nobody at your rating range (and even when you go higher you see people still taking the second pawn; I was one of those as well) knows how to get an alright position in it (which is to force trades down into a pawn up endgame).

Also when using percentages, try to gather up a few more games; 8 games is a very low set of games to analyze ANYTHING off, except for the board vision.

Avatar of infinityducks

But another question: why do you despise fianchetto's so much? If you like attacking there's A LOT of fianchetto openings that look fine to me; Modern Benoni, Benko (my fav), and there's probably some more.

Avatar of gik-tally

i've tried them and have lost pretty much every game with them. I like my bishops central and mobile, not locked into one diagonal. they can't multitask. I just don't like them, but will have to learn to some if I'm going to double danish

as to the stats, 10 is a small sampling, but my point is I'm beating the odds even in the "weakest line". the games are just playing chess. I'm finding the mobility I need to counter attack. that's my point. I don;t play for pawn endings, and if I did, I'd lose them anyways. I play to get the job done in under 20.

I can't wait to test drive my double danish goering theory! the DD in particular reminds me a lot of this, but with maximum openess and simplicity. It looks much better than the Nxc3 main line which looks more like a complicated 4 knights.

speed and mobility are not to be underestimated and even 2000+ players make mistakes. it's just my job to play more accurately. I can do that when a position is based on attacking principles... my bread and butter, what I understand.

it was fun following danish games and often guessing the correct next attacking move. like the hartlaub charlick, I'm watching games thinking "oh, I get THIS!" and liking the super wide open queenside to wiggle around in