French advance early Bb5+ help please :)

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CNoahSay
Hi all I am trying to play the french and would love some conceptual, positional and any help you can have. In the advance variation the move 4.Bb5+ is not talked about. It throws me off and I have to decide whether to block with the knight or the bishop.
 
Opening explorer has 4...Nc6 played the most times (2) with a 100% win rate. However, no one took on c6 with the bishop and I want to know why?! I have an Idea that you would take on d5 and push c5 again. And finally how to approach the position when white has played f4 to support e5?
 
Answer any or all, thank you
 
TwoMove

For the million and one time,  the classic noob bb5 in the french advance. Either respond bd7, and have your bad bishop exchanged for free. Alternative play Nc6, and if they play BxN, obtain another c-pawn to attack the centre and the two bishops. All need to do then is put opponent on your christmass card list,to thank him for his poor positional play.

Merovwig

I find you, TwoMove, on every single French topic I answer to. ;)

@NoahSay:

As previously said, you just have to make simple positional assessments.

Light-squared Bishop is the best minor piece for White in the French Advance variation while it's the worst for Black. That is why it is a common plan for Black to (try to) exchange it. That being said, 2 cases are possible:

1) Sometimes, Bb5+ is not a "noob" move when Black played ..b6 in the opening with the idea of playing ...Ba6 (backed up by the Knight in b8) to exchange light-squared Bishops. In such case Bb5+ is played to "misplace" your Bishop in d7 (since your plan was to move it to a6) before retreating White's Bishop or playing a4 if I remember well.

So, if you are playing a b6 variation, have a look at GM games.

2) Otherwise Bb5+ is an inaccurate move by White, you can just play Bd7 (where it was supposed to go anyway) and enjoy the exchange if White plays Bxd7.

 

Regarding the f4 variation, it gives Black the extra-option of developing his Knight via Nh6 to control f5 (or to move this knight to f5 putting pressure on d4 later). Instead of Ne7, this move keeps the diagonal clear for your dark-squared Bishop, it also helps to prevent a quick g4 and so on. Plus, since there is a pawn in f4, you Knight is out of the sight of the White's dark-squared Bishop and cannot be exchanged by Bxh6.

(Though I said "extra-option", notice that in lines without f4, ...Nh6 can be played anyway without fear of Bxh6 since after ...gxh6, the empty g7-square allows Black to develop his Bishop to g7 where it puts pressure on White's pawns on dark squares. But that's another story)

One last thing: if White plays Bb5 when you already played ...Bd7 and ...Nc6, have a look at ...Nxe5 which often wins a pawn (check by yourself).

advancededitingtool1

It doesn't look like the Sicilian to me, does it? The pawn structure is wrong for this kind of exchange. You are trading your good bishop for his bad bishop, it doesn't make sense. Keep always in mind that you are trading your good bishop.

Merovwig

Actually, Black is trading his bad Bishop (OP is playing Black side obviously).

advancededitingtool1

Don't know who are you talking with, the op, the noob or whoever. Bb5 makes sense here only if it is traded for the knight and when fighting over the e5 square, it is regarded as a good trade, but only for the knight on c6, when Black plays prior to that f6 and takes the pawn on e5 subsequently, it allows White to grab the pawn with the knight on e5 and gain control over that square and dark squares in general since it is not wise for Black to trade his dark squared bishop for that knight, not even later on in the game, hence even in the worst case scenario it will leave Black with a bad bishop. On that ground both Bd7 and Nc6 are good moves, with a clear preference for Bd7, for obvious reasons.

chessam1998

All the answers here just show that chess is a very concrete game. So please give the exact sequence till that "early Bb5+".

advancededitingtool1

yureesystem

Bad idea 5.Bb5?, this bishop is too important to trade for a knight on c6, without this bishop all white can hope for is a draw. Wink

GreenCastleBlock
pfren wrote:

I don't get how on earth the position on #11 can result, excluding both sides playing stupid moves- say:

In the final position, I don't see where the trouble is for Black after 8...Nf6.

 

You'll find the #11 user often posts nonsensical continuations/diagrams without explanation, just because he knows how to.

advancededitingtool1
advancededitingtool1
GreenCastleBlock wrote:
pfren wrote:

I don't get how on earth the position on #11 can result, excluding both sides playing stupid moves- say:

In the final position, I don't see where the trouble is for Black after 8...Nf6.

 

You'll find the #11 user often posts nonsensical continuations/diagrams without explanation, just because he knows how to.

no, not really, the user is just trying to make a point, without insulting anyone along the way

advancededitingtool1
pfren wrote:

And the point is- what exactly?

That the eventual Bxc6+ results in equality if Black plays horrible moves, and white misses an easy win?

yes, equality your humbleness

CNoahSay
Thanks everyone especially IM Pfren! I really wanted to understand why NC6 was preferred to Bd7. The points he made are good for me. Trading my light squared bishop seems great. But i think the bishop pair and another pawn to push to c5 are better reasons as well as what he has already mentioned.
advancededitingtool1
Not to mention that the fact that Black didn't win means nothing
CNoahSay

5...Nc6 will be the move I play. 

 

However, this doesn't seem bad but I would struggle to make progress once the c paws are traded.

advancededitingtool1

It was probably explained why by folks like Nimzovich. Bb5+ is not good for White.

CNoahSay
[COMMENT DELETED]
advancededitingtool1

Black is a GM with a rating of 2630. But I'm not playing the French therefore I can only tell what makes sense and what doesn't. There you go. Happy now?

advancededitingtool1
pfren wrote:
leklerk1 wrote:

Black is a GM with a rating of 2630. But I'm not playing the French therefore I can only tell what makes sense and what doesn't. There you go. Happy now?

You forgot to mention that the opponent was rated ~800 points lower, and that after the positional lemon 7.f4? one should already  know the outcome.

you can always shit on your mother's grave as well I'm sure