French advance variation

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Avatar of TuckerTommy
I wish to pursue study of the following variation in the French advanced except not many games have been played or found in databases. What resources can I use to study this variation?
The position may be arrived at by 1 e4 e6 2d4 c6 3 Nf3 d5 4 e5 c5 5c3 a6 6Bd3 7 cxd4 Nc6 8 Nc3 Nge7 After white castles...black can play Ng6 or Nf5. One site call masterchessopen.com calls it the French advanced Paulsen Najdorf which means it bears resemblance to the Sicilian Najdorf. The move c6 to c5 is played due to the fact that black can also transpose to the stonewall defense depending on what white plays.
Avatar of TuckerTommy
Well....what is the defense or opening called?
Avatar of aggressivesociopath

You could use an engine I suppose, but you are playing weird moves to just get a regular Advance French a tempo down. 

Avatar of TuckerTommy
it's a french advanced for sure...C02
Opening Name
French Defense: Advance Variation Paulsen Attack
Pgn Notation
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3
Avatar of toiyabe

I don't know why you want to spend time studying a bad opening.  To each their own, I guess.  

Avatar of GulagSurvivor
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:

I don't know why you want to spend time studying a bad opening.  To each their own, I guess.  

I agree Sveshnikov refuted the advance years ago. 

Avatar of TuckerTommy
I think it's just a way of transposing the french to a sicilian line similar to the najdorf with a6 later....probably intending to fool white....my mentor who's a 1900 player plays it really well.
Avatar of TuckerTommy
Mikhail Gurevich plays this French..


Matthias Wahls also explained this as arising also from the O'kelly Sicilian...funny no one recognizes this position much.
Avatar of ModestAndPolite

The OP asked for recommended resources to study.  In these days of on-line tools and massive databses books are still useful.  This is my favourite:

 

The French: Tarrasch Variation. Steffen Pedersen. Gambit 2005

 

Also all the editions of Watson's "Play the French" have intersting material, but they are less comprehensive.

 

NOTE: I made the mistake of selling my earlier edition when the latest one came out, thinking the new edition would be an update.  In fact each edition is a major re-write of the previous one, with very different recommendations in some systems.  In particular he has dropped a lot of great analysis on the Advance variation and his new main recommendation is a peculilar, unnatural and (to me) dodgy looking line.

 

Althought these recommendations are not up to date they should be more than enough at less than master level.

 

Ther are many GMs and IMs, past and present, that have the French as their main defence to 1. e4.  Uhlmann's games include many good examples of breating up the White in the Fremch "counter attack".  Most of the precise variations he played have been improved for one side or the other since his time, but I don't think there ar better games for showing the principles of the French. That is, how to use the advantages that the French gives Black while avoiding being smashed on the King's side, or squashed into passivity.  Korchnoy is a good example for seeing the defensive resources in awful looking positions.  Nigel Short's games show more variety and experimentation in the French.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Avatar of TuckerTommy
Guys, I think I can shed more light on what I initially brought to the table....take a look at the blitz games of chesslight4983 He's my mentor. Particularly, pull up the games where he plays as black against white's 1.e4...he always responds with e6...then 2...c6....the games flow through the path we are discussing. He says to me, you won't find this in any books. But I know it clearly flows from the French advanced line...where c3 is included. As far as numerous books on the French advanced which I have checked, those lines including a6 for black play Bd7 then trades of the light square black bishop for white's light square bishop. chesslight4983 usually takes Nf5 or Ng6 which came from Nge7 with Bd3. His light square bishop usually goes to Be6 to stop the advance of e5. I also note in many of his games Rac8 is played. That being said, and also considering the fact, you guys state the tempo loss by playing c6 to c5, I'm thinking chesslight probably just has good calculation skills and can play really well despite the alleged tempo loss. Maybe this line brings him excellent positions for his person good. He's been playing for about 40 years. Chesslight was playing sicilian for a very long time then recently switched to this line. He stated to me that the sicilian has two many lines to learn so this french line he must have worked out for his personal good, not only minimized the number of lines but brought him more wins. That, may be why the line resembles a sicilian....just my 2 cents.
Avatar of TwoMove

You can play any garbage in blitz games. Playing c6 then c5 likely wins a few seconds. There is no positional/ chess benefit in playing this way.

Play e6 sicilian's and french myself, there are positions that can transpose. The particular line you are interested in is just tempo down on known lines for no benefict, at best. The point of a6, is to follow up with bd7-b5 to exchange the bad bishop. If play normal advance french moves ne7-f5 or g6, then it, a6,  does't have any point either. Think your mentor is confusing you with a terrible combination of bad and complicated ideas.

Avatar of TuckerTommy
TwoMove, I think he's very familiar with both Sicilian and French lines so he can escape quickly from many positions. He remarked that he plays a6 to stop Bb5+ so he can castle. But maybe I'm not on his level so I should probably pursue playing straight French or Sicilian main lines....grrrrhhhh!!! I think one of the reasons I kinda followed him was the transpositions which he knows well, except my minimal experience cant really keep up with his play. TwoMove, you obviously understand the lines between French and Sicilian which someone remarked was not really right.
Avatar of TuckerTommy
Jengaias, sorry to burst your hubble bubble. I have asked him a ton of questions on this opening. I usually get the reply, just watch me or it's instinctive. He possesses an instinct for positions which is IMHO difficult to teach or develop. He even responds sometimes with, "I don't know why I play this". It appears you guys understand the theoretical aspects behind what he does. That's why he's told me you won't find this in any books which is what I like to study and dissect in order to learn chess. You mentioned something about the Rubinstein Caro Khan position. Where can I find more study or theory on that?
Avatar of TuckerTommy
Also, Jengais, in looking over the games you posted, they are somewhat from last year. The position my mentor plays I think is in more recent games since 2016. Look at his games from this past summer to now. I say this because he's played the sicilian heavily but switched to this French system in the past about 6 months. White usually plays e5!!!
Avatar of Brb2023bruhh

Sveshnikov plays this as white!

Avatar of DrSpudnik

In most variations of the French (and most other semi-open games) Black will eventually play a6. If played when needed, it can be a big help. If played out of sequence in an opening, it could be a disastrous waste of a move. Here on move 6, it looks like a pointless time waster.

Avatar of TuckerTommy
But get this guys...chesslight has a strategy by playing c6!!! It's really not a senseless move in terms of loss of tempo by playing c5 later. Here's why....I often see an alternate line that doesn't go into a french line such as the following....assuming its dutch defense...right? 1.e4 e6 2 d4 c6 3 nf3 d5 4exd5 cxd5 5 Bf4 a6 6 Bd3 f5 7 0-0 nf6....in many of the games as black that doesn't follow the french line he plays the dutch defense line with f5 and Nf6 later. Sometimes he exchanges the dark square bishop for white's dark square bishop on d6. All of this comes from observing many of his games. As black it's either the french line or the transposition to the Dutch defense.
Avatar of TuckerTommy
Well...whatever it's called.....point is there is a reason for delaying the c5 move. Black can change to the alternate line with f5.
Avatar of samyakdeshpande

i too have an forum topic on french defense [advance] 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 nc6 5. nf3 qb6

Avatar of TuckerTommy
Qb6 was the first line I studied in the FD. There are so many other lines in the FD to study.