French Tarrasch

Recently I've been encountering the Tarrasch when I play the French in online blitz. I play 3...c5, intending to meet 4.exd5 with ...Qxd5. But my opponents have been playing other moves, and I'm not sure how to meet them. I'm reminded of when I used to play that other Tarrasch, the defence to the Queen's Gambit, and opponents would avoid the main book lines and keep all the pawns in the centre so that I was never sure when to exchange pawns and which ones. Any suggestions as to what I should be aiming for?

Here's the diagram:

4. c3 is not bad, but Black can just take on d4 and then on e4 and play Nf6.  Something like this:

These end positions are fine for Black.

4. Ngf3 is one of the main moves in this position and you need to learn some theory.   A sample main line might go something like this:

With compensation for the pawn, but not more. 

These variations are all from IM Miedema's recent book on the Tarrasch, although his analysis goes quite a bit further and covers many deviations.  In some of the lines after 4. Ngf3, Black has to play g7-g5 to generate counterplay.  But Black seems to be doing okay in these lines.

Thanks, that's helpful.

Generally speaking, when you play 3...c5, how to respond to 4.Ngf3 should depend on your response to 4.exd5 and 5 Ngf3.

If you play 4...Qxd5, the it is best for you to take immediately on d4 if 4.Ngf3.  I do not play this line as Black, and wouldn't touch the Tarrasch as White with a 10-foot pole, only the Advance or 3.Nc3, so could not tell you much beyond that about transpositions and which independent lines White has.

If you play 4...exd5 and 5...Nf6, you should answer with 4...Nf6, but keep in mind that 5.e5 instead of 5.exd5 leads to the Universal System (also known as the Korchnoi Gambit)

If you play 4...exd5 and 5...Nc6, then 4...Nc6 is your move and White has nothing better than to transpose as 5.e5?! transposes to the Advance French with the inferior move Nbd2 thrown in for White instead of a3 or Be2, depending on the exact line played.

I play the latter two, but if 4.Ngf3, I now stick with 4...Nc6 to avoid the Universal System.  Only play the 5...Nf6 line if White plays 4.exd5 and I happen to choose 5...Nf6 that game.

If you are about the ...Qxd5 stuff, then 4.Ngf3 is best answered by 4...cxd4 followed by ...Nc6.

After 4.c3 you can take on d4 and then on e4, when you have good chances to reach a Nimzo-Indian tabiya by transposition.

Thanks, everyone - it sounds like capturing on d4 is the best way for me.

This personally is the line I play, if you want spicy games:

I hope I face you sometime.  You would not get that against me.  You'll end up with one of the following if you are White:

3...c5 4.exd5 exd5

3...c5 4.Ngf3 Nc6

And if you are Black, either move 1 (1.c4, 1.b3, 1.Nf3), move 2 (2.d3) or move 3 (3.e5 or 3.Nc3) would be different.  You won't catch me dead playing 1.e4, 2.d4, and 3.Nd2 as White!

Ohhh so you avoid the french but play the french, yes makes sense

@ThrillerFan why so much hate towards the Tarrasch? It scores well and has been really popular at all levels for decades.

The irony is ThrillerFan struggles a bit against the Tarrasch on chess.com as Black, compared to other major White replies, where he indeed has had quite good results. Now I know those are all online blitz games, but still the statistics should count for something

No, I do not avoid the French, I avoid 3.Nd2?! Nf6?!

As White, which I play more than 1 first move, if I do start 1.e4 and it goes 1...e6 2.d4 d5, I only play 3.e5 or 3.Nc3,  NOT 3.Nd2?!

As Black, if 3.Nd2?!, I play 3...c5!

oh k

That seems pretty common, everyone has their favored line against nc3 and I've never known a frenchie to dread the advance.  I've known quite a few people who struggle bagainst the tarrasch

Because a lot has changed in the French during the 2000-2009 decade, and it has been determined that 3.e5 is not as easy for Black to deal with as people make it out to be, and I played the Sicilian for a few years as Black BECAUSE of the advance.  Theory has updated a lot with 3.Nc3 and 3.Nd2 as well.  After 3.Nd2 c5!, White has nothing!  I have not played 3...Nf6 since then.  Back in the 90s and early 2000s, I played 3...Nf6 and had horrible results.  Now, I rarely lose.  I lost a drawn R+P vs N+P endgame in time trouble from a Tarrasch.  Otherwise, have not lost an OTB game to the Tarrasch in the last 4 years!  I have lost 1 Tarrasch and 1 Exchange as Black in half a decade.  Been beaten by the Advance a few times and 3.Nc3 many times!

Having played the French over the board over 100 times in the last 5 years, maybe even over 150 times, the stats are there to prove it.  It isn't like I lost 2 games out of 6 with the French.  Probably more like 50 out of 150, but of those 50, only 1 is against 3.Nd2

Amateur otb games are irrelevant.

@ThrillerFan Saying white has nothing is a pretty bold claim.  Sure things have evolved, but I don't think I've even seen chess authors make that statement... and they have money riding on it.  It looks like you play the IQP lines.  Could you show us your analysis?

I mean thrillerfan is literally expert rating on uscf

Chess.com blitz games are 100 times MORE IRRELEVANT!