I would totally go for it as I have always wanted to learn the hedgehog. There is a hedgehog group on chess.com and I would consult with him before moving forward.
Hedgehog (Shipov's Books)
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Thanks. I'll contact him.
As said you can't force a hedgehog, but you can devise a repertoire in which you a very likely to get a hedgehog like structure:
English opening
Sicilian kan/taimanov aagainst e4
Symmetrical english
I'm not sure what the best way to do it against 1.d4 is though.
Yes! Just get the latest editions. The first edition's last chapter contains a refutation of Gipslis' Variation. I mainly bought the book to study the pawn formation better (and I play Hedgehog against 1.Nf3 or 1.c4 anyway and some 1.d4 lines, even an occasional Paulsen Hedgehog against 1.e4) to build on what I've read in Dynamic Pawn Play and Pawn Structure Chess.
There are some good text commentaries in the Shipov books, just beware of it seeming like a datadump in places. But that's to be expected with an opening book.
Here's one of my Hedgehog games as black:
Nice. So what is it, exactly, that I will need to know (and/or books to buy) in order to be able to force the Hedgehog as described in the two volumes by Shipov, or if not force then be able to get into a Hedgehog-like structure (for both Black and White) against any opening/defense.
Any more details would be greatly appreciated.
Here's one from Grischuk (admittedly a rapid game)
And another from a 2700+ in a rapid:
What I like about the Hedgehog is you coordinate and get your pieces ready for the real game, patiently getting your own house in order before embarking on any serious operations. The complications when they do happen are tough, and usually black doesn't want to trade down despite being cramped. As someone once said the Hedgehog is a beast of modern times!
Thanks for the sample games and advice, all.
@Maggs: First of all, how do you know what I am studying or have studied? Are you in my office? How many hours have I spent on the Gruenfeld, for example? Have I made a definitive decision on whether to add the Gruenfeld to my repertoire? This post is about the Hedgehog. Please see subject line.
It's sort of like researching a chess book before you buy it, Maggs. You look at it a little, talk to people, see if it's worth your time, then jump in. I'm not a pro and can't afford to waste countless hours on studying chess books or openings that won't be very useful to me. I'm a huge advocate of research "before you buy." Is that okay with you, Maggs?
Hedgehogs and Hippos are a bit terrifying to play... strategically complex for you, and fairly simple for your opponents. You say you're not a pro with a lot of time to study, IMO all the more reason to stay away!
Pick something like the london, or giuoco pianissimo. Stupidly solid, but not stupidly passive, and not stupidly complex to stay alive. And I'm not even talking theory, just go for that type of setup every game with both colors.
The reason I am interested in the Hedgehog as an opening is because the animal is so damned cute, but illegal to own as a pet in California. Have you seen what a baby hedgehog looks like?
I totally welcome the advice, and it's probably good advice I am getting. It just sounded like I was being admonished. I admit, I do not know what I want in my repertoire yet. I'm not saying I do or do not want to go for any of the aforementioned openings.
I have been hearing from some other highly-rated players (in the forums and by PM) that the Hedgehog may be more suited to someone who is around Master level or higher. I will probably hold off on the Hedgehog until I am a lot better. That being said, I would still be interested in answers to what I was asking regarding the Hedgehog (and I got some of of that) for future reference. Additionally, the study of the Shipov books is instructive for the annotations I have been told, even if you decide not to use the opening.
I have not made a definitive decision about the Slav or Gruenfeld. QGD will probably be in be repertoire though. I am told both Slav and Gruenfeld require much learning, but especially so for the Gruenfeld. However, I have had a very high level player who has worked with me and thought I should go for the QGD as White and Slav, Semi-Slav as Black...also Trombowsky, Torre, e5 responses to 1.e4, etc. That's his opinion. Part of whatever decisions I make is likely to change way down the line anyway.
I haven't seriously considered the London or G. Piano, but perhaps I should.
I had not heard the Hippo was in the same league as the Hedgehog, so this is news to me.
I am considering The Kaufman Repertoire for Black & White. It is not simple. White covers, for example, 1.d4 2.c4, QGD, QGA, Benoni, Chigorin, Dutch, etc.. Black covers, for example, 1.e4 e5, Ruy Lopez (Breyer), 1.d4 Nf6, Gruenfeld, Scotch (I like scotch) and Four Knights, etc.
Nov 8, 2014
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#15
The hedgehog is difficult to play for masters too. Even when I know most of the common maneuvers in the hedgehog it is difficult to know when it is appropriate to play each one. Shipov also writes that if white just sits on his space advantage and holds his position, black has trouble making progress.
Nov 8, 2014
0
#16
Hey Chicken_Monster, I can ask the IM I am working with for advice. He knows a lot about those theory details in Hedgehog etc. Cheers my friend :)
It is true. Shipov says so himself.
Aha! But there is still hope XPLAYA. The Hedgehog, as it is defined, cannot be forced -- you cannot force your opponent to allow you to play it, and you cannot force your opponent to play it. However, the issue is whether a Hedgehog-like opening can be forced. If so, then all effort is not wasted. While you might not technically be playing the Hedgehog, you may be able to force your way into playing a similar opening that just doesn't fall within the technical definition of "Hedgehog." That's what I'm trying to find out.
Just keep in mind that the Grunfeld is quite dry and boring from both ends. I can't help but think it's going to be the Berlin Wall of 1.d4. Heck I play the Berlin Wall and it isn't as dry as the Grunfeld (admittedly the Grunfeld lines I remember are from MCO-14 I studied years ago)
Someone was telling me about The Complete Hedgehog Vol.1 by Shipov, They told me the book and opening are really good/solid. What is your opinion? Can you force play of it (I believe this book teaches the English Hedgehog) for White and for Black? Is this book (and Vol. 2) worth the time?