Help with London System after 1.d4 c5

I had the good fortune of playing against a very strong National Master at my chess club, excited to try out The London System after some study. Magnus Carlsen plays it, so it can’t be a bad opening, right? 

My question, how do you play The London against The Benoni? After my loss, I learned that after 1.d4 c5, to play 2.d5. The NM also suggested that move after our game. Well, I can still play Bf4 at some point, except for when Black plays 2...e5, which is the top choice in the database. 

The only way I see of being sure of getting a London is to play 1.d4 c5 2.c3 e6 3.Bf4 Nf6 4.Nf3 cxd4 5.cxd4 Qb6 6.Qc2 (=). 

The game lasted 11 moves. I failed to find a great defending resource in 11.Rc1, threatening RxBc8+! 

I could be stubborn and play the line at the beginning of the post. The computer says the position is about equal. GM Simon Williams says to play 2.d5 after 1.d4 c5. That stops White from losing a pawn, but there is no London Bf4 if Black plays 2...e5, and now White is stuck playing some mainline in The Benoni. Yuck! 

 with 1. d4 c5, the best move you can play here by far is d5. is there something about the bononi you don't like? the strongest way to play against this opening is to simply play the bononi. you can try to set up like a london system if you wish but I don't recommend it. The position after f4! is very hard to play for black and I've won numerous games in this position against 1600 and 1800's. you have ideas of e5 mainly to crack through the center.

In your game against the NM, your position was already uncomfortable after 4...Qb3 because the pawns on b2 and d5 are already under fire. if you really want to try to make a london system out of this, then I would try the variation I attached below with e4 on move 3. Hope this helps!

«Benoni means sorrow, it is a suitable name»-Grischuk

Along with you, GM Simon Williams and NM Arthur say the best move is d5, so I really should just suck it up and learn The Benoni in case Black does play 2...e5, a move I don’t yet understand. Thanks so much for showing me that tactic with the Queen if I choose to try The London against The Benoni. 

I don't think there is any advantage to be found in the position after 1.d4 c5, or more tyically 1...e6, 2c3 e6 3Bf4 .    c3 is a kind of lame move even in the London. 3e4 d5 is transposing to the french  after 4pxp pxp, 4...Qxp is also possible, these positions are common from the alapin sicilian too, 5Bf4 is not very challenging. I would say the person recommending 5Bf4 is well aware of this, but was trying to be helpful suggesting something Londonish. Playing like this is what got London players a bad rep in the first place. If have a little bit of flexibilty it can be a much more effective opening.

@Colingohmann98 the line you mentioned is a good line against the Modern Benoni, but 1.d4 c5 is the Old Benoni and white has even better as he is not obliged to play c4:

I think this is an improvement since there a good square on c4 for a knight which can pressure d6, while black doesn't have the queenside pawn majority to show for it that he does in the Modern Benoni. Also, this is another nice option:

This is also no fun for black. So I don't think there's any reason to transpose to the Modern Benoni here, which GM practice has shown to be sound, even in the line you gave with f4 which was previously thought to be a refutation but now is known to be acceptable for black.

WHO LIKE QUEEN GAMBIT DECLINED

First - No argument over 1.d4 c5 2.d5 being best for White. Second - If Black allows it, as GM Simon Williams teaches in his chess.com series on the London, White can play Bf4 in this move order - 1.d4 c5 2.d5 Nf6 3.Bf4. He never talks about what to do after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5, where the London move Bf4 looks unplayable after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 3.dxe6 fxe6 4.Bf4?! Nc6 5.e3 Nf6.  

Best for White in this line is 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 3.e4. 

However, regarding the exchange Slav, Black can go seriously wrong after 1.d4 c5 2.c3!? cxd4 3.cxd4 d5 4.Bf4 Qb6 5.Nc3 Qxa2?? 6.Nxd5, and Black will lose more than a pawn in all lines. Best play for Black is 5...e6 6.Qc2. 

Since this is somewhat related to the benoni plan of Nf3-d2-c4, and because black can error into this kind of setup in other openings too, I think it's worth pointing out that...

Thank you. 2...e5 is the most popular move, second being 2...Nf6 after 1.d4 c5 2.d5. I don’t see the point in playing 2...e5, and yet Fabiano Caruana played it against Levon Aronian in 2018. Fabiano lost that game in 44 moves, but still, it’s the first choice among masters. Why? Compete for space? Lock the center and play on the flanks? 

Already 1...c5 is... not so great. Maybe you'll see GMs like Rapport playing it or something.

So that plus e5 really surprises me if Caruana played it. Maybe it was a blitz or rapid game? I wouldn't expect to see it vs a super GM in a classical game from Caruana.

It was a 5 minute blitz game, Speed Chess event here on chess.com. 

I read more on ...e5. When played in The Modern Benoni after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5, 3...e5 is the starting point for the Czech Benoni. Example continuation above. 

Thanks for the Exchange Slav idea. Lots of transposition possibilities. I was happily playing 1.d4 2.c4 until IM Eric Rosin got me excited about playing The London, playing it live on Twitch against his viewers. I mean, I’ll still play 1.d4 2.c4 as well,  but I enjoy learning new openings. 

I really need a repertoire for Black against The English - 1.c4. It’s the only opening this one 1600 player at my club plays. 

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I got this book for my Kindle a while back - Play the London System by IM Cyrus Lakdawala, Everyman Chess. He writes, “After 1.d4 c5, if you want to be true to the London, you now play 2.c3 and then after 2...cxd4 3.cxd4 we reach an Exchange Slav. Alternatively, there’s 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 cxd4 4.cxd4, again with an Exchange Slav. I get this quite often so be warned that you need to know the basic ideas of the Exchange Slav. Some opening books dismiss this line as easy equality for Black, but I do not believe it is so straightforward for Black to equalize. Having the move in a symmetrical position is like having the serve in tennis. “

Above is one of his games, the first ten moves, where he meets ...c5 with c3.

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Probably one of the most straightforward ways is like this.

You'll play some normal looking development moves and an early d5.

You'll notice this resembles the main line of the English (at least, what I think of as the main line).

Except the positions of the e7 bishop and b6 knight are switched.

You can certainly play it, but I'm sort of hoping that the slight difference will confuse them and make them think on their own instead of playing a bunch of book.

Problem with 1.c4 e5 is that 1.Nf3 e5 doesn't work. I play 1.c4 c5 and 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 which is very versatile

1.Nf3 d5 and now 2.c4 gives black tons of options. I wouldn't say that's a move order to worry about, also 1.Nf3 isn't an English.

1.Nf3 d5 is fair enough if 2.d4 is acceptable

Also, it isn't guaranteed to be an English but in my view why not transpose them to the same thing to reduce effort?

As black you can't make white play into an English. People play 1.Nf3 and go for a Reti or Catalan for example.

But sure, 1...Nf6 is a good move to play against 1.Nf3.