how to study this position?

im getting this position in 50% of my games against 1.d4 and nigel davies says its a playable position for  black where he even has winningchances but i have no idea how to get better in the position and im losing alot of games against lowerrated players i would beat easily in almost any other opening and when i win its only because of tactical blunders. are there some books on this or maybe i just should study endgames in general since queens are traded? i tried to study some games but i cant find annotated games. it seems many people prefer to move pawn to c6 from that position and tucking away the king at c7. the c6pawn seems to deny white some good squares and the king seems well placed on c7

Ok, how that is any good for black is beyond me. There are so many better things to do, instead of lose opportunity to castle, lose kingside center position, and leave much room along the whole way to get a good shot.

thanks for the feedback:)

yes you lose the right to castle  but the queens are traded and the game is going for an endgame already and as you know when endgame arises the king is best as central as possible. is not that much dangerous mates when the queens are off:)

when you say lose center you mean that the king can be attacked? if white move pawn to c7 restricting bishop and knight to go to b5 and moves king to c7 i cant see that blacks king is any easier to attack than whites if i am right and i won all my wins here on launching my kingsidepawns against white but im not sure if that is a good way to play against anyone knowing what they are doing.

  that is why i think the pawn at e5 is just gaining black more space in the center than white. i dont see any weaknesses to blacks position and most of the pieces are on the board. i guess everything can happen. i like black position best and gm nigel davies doesnt mind playing it as black

The position is at least equal, and databases show that black has better winning chances. A tipical line would be:

i see your point but dont forget, the point of castling is to have the king safe for dangerous middlegameattacks and centralize the rooks. here i can easily centralize rooks and i already skipped the middlegame straight into the endgame so since its a endgame white with the castled king is the one having trouble since he must get the king out of the corner and into the game while im already there:) if you added a queen to that position it would have been a different scenario. just play through howlzamimarus game from the last post and you see how solid black are

A quick look at the chessbase shows that Tal, Miles Hort, Epichin are some of the GMs who have played the black side of  this. So dismissing it just because it feels wrong isn't justified.

I guess the way forward is to compile a list of GM games as a reference DB and go through your games to see where you deviated and think if and why your move(s) is inferior. 

It does seem to me that from your position hitting the c4 pawn,f6 to protect the e5, c6 to manually 0-0-0, h5 to stop white play in the Qside and creating an outpost for the Knight to c5 happens in many games.

I don't think that you can get any generic advices; the time for that is over, only concrete analysis can do what you want.

Good luck!

PS

try to play it from the white side few times if possible, it is good to know what the other side is thinking

thanks for the advice but i dont do well because i play random moves when i run out of theori. a im told me once that i should always understand an opening before i decide that i dont like it and i like every other opening coming out of 1.d6. i hear you say black has a good chance to hold a draw but grandmaster nigel davies said that black has winningchances just recently and i think he is alot stronger than us:) why is black striving for a draw here? does white have anything? maybe i should get some endgamebooks but since its so many pieces on the board im not sure. i find it hard to define when middlegame stops and endgame starts

maybe i should get a bunch of endgamebooks. i very stubborn and im gonna learn this well:)

i think you are right akischess. maybe concrete analysis, endgamestudy and gm study is what i need here. i never thought about playing it from the white side. i guess there is areason why you are 2100:P

i think that is good advice tonydal but exept for that line i like every other line in the pirc/modern style and im willing to to alot of work to make this line work. i think i will face it less often as i get better and after all, Tal that crazy attackingplayer played it so it cant be that boring:)

I agree with you very much, in chessbase black is doing more than average but also is about 200 elo higher.

I think though that in our level we need to experiment with various openings, I would guess that you have sorted out a repertoire.

On the other hand I have noticed that many players often blame openings and hope to find salvation in a new one rather than try to find why they they loose the games.

yes i have been stuck at around 1500 years for switching openings all the time. but i found out that all openings have boring answers. sicilian has c3sicilian, french has exchangevariation, slav has exchangevariation and so on. i chose to stick with pirc/modern because i struggled against it as white( as black also. i guess it can be played against everything with every color) but i found out i like it

thats my point. so now im staying there and instead investing time to learn those lines well instead of moving away as well as studying endgames. im reading dvoretskys endgamemanual, jeremy silmans reassess your chess and im looking for a good book in IQP. finally my rating is improving again:)

An IM told me a while ago that he assesses black's position as slightly better after the queen trade. Basically, he said c4 creates weaknesses for white and is not a useful move. The most common black set-up has been shown by armiraz above : play c6 and put the king on c7, strengthen the centre with f6, trade the dark-square bishops with Bc5 and see what you can do from here

I would strongly suggest to study (ie. annotate by yourself) some games played by strong players on the black side. You can even publish your analysis in this forum - whether right or wrong, it will help you improve.

is not the average "endgame" there are still 8 major pieces on the board and almost all the 2.c4players in my club does the queentrade so i think good understanding of the position will matter alot. if i get really good in this position im getting a position i know well middlegame and endgame against almost all 2.c4 players while they have no idea. now thats not bad is it:) and i have checked and i like all the lines that arent 2.dXe5. i like like that i now have to study endgame. im suprised how interestning it is. its a eyeopener. and as the rating of my opponent increases i dont think they are as willing to trade queens for a equal endgame as white:)

i will try that hicetnunc. i stuided some games but couldnt find annotated ones. i guess this is my way to get annotation:)

Sorry I have missed it that you are playing this as Black. I think that I have read somewhere that after 1. d4 d6 the White is actually advised to play 2. e4 transposing into the Pirc.

2.e4 is the most principled move (if Black allows it, put two pawns in the center). But Black is likely to know the opening much better than White.

I think stronger players play 2.Nf3, to avoid the 2...e5 stuff, intending to go into a normal Old or King's Indian after 3.c4.