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I ranked all 20 responses to e4 for black
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May 30, 2023
0
#103
Yerachmeal wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
i need you to prove that it is so much easier for white to "achieve a better position" in the sicilian than the caro to warrant a 5 place difference in favor of the caro (if not you are talking about something else)
Oh the 5 place gap is because the top 10 are all close in my opinion, there really isn't a very big gap between 2-9.
you still think caro is better
and coz who cares about objective result (draw)
is it easier for white to achieve a better position vs the sicilian
and give examples
people here have given examples of sicilians where black has a bunch of counterplay and caros where black is just spaceless and behind development
if no examples, it doesnt merit that high ranking imo
and modern defense... lets just ignore it
1. E4 b5 is apparently called the o’neill gambit
May 30, 2023
0
#105
TheSampson wrote:
You should probably check the engine
(The engine says it’s -0.91. Clearly not a “minor advantage for white”)
You could argue that in most lines, the evaluation bar is positive for white. Okay.
The evaluation here is +0.39. From the starting position of the entire game, the evaluation bar says white has a +0.47 advantage. White naturally has a minor advantage, he always has the first move. Meanwhile, if black has a -0.47 advantage, white made an inaccuracy because black now has the supposed “first move advantage.” White gets a minor advantage in nearly every line he plays. The minor advantage you should be talking about is like, +1.0, which is in none of the lines shown. White doesn’t get a minor advantage because black plays the Sicilian, he gets a minor advantage because he’s on the white side.
My bad, I planned on responding and forgot. The evaluation bar isn't the main factor for how good a position is (unless it puts one side as having a big enough lead that with no mistakes on each side it should win), it fails to keep in mind human error etc.
Now to address your point, that 1st position you showed wouldn't be reached with meas white because
and I literally don't see anything wrong with the 2nd position.
This is not to say black's losing, just that white is slightly better.
Yerachmeal wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
You should probably check the engine
(The engine says it’s -0.91. Clearly not a “minor advantage for white”)
You could argue that in most lines, the evaluation bar is positive for white. Okay.
The evaluation here is +0.39. From the starting position of the entire game, the evaluation bar says white has a +0.47 advantage. White naturally has a minor advantage, he always has the first move. Meanwhile, if black has a -0.47 advantage, white made an inaccuracy because black now has the supposed “first move advantage.” White gets a minor advantage in nearly every line he plays. The minor advantage you should be talking about is like, +1.0, which is in none of the lines shown. White doesn’t get a minor advantage because black plays the Sicilian, he gets a minor advantage because he’s on the white side.
My bad, I planned on responding and forgot. The evaluation bar isn't the main factor for how good a position is (unless it puts one side as having a big enough lead that with no mistakes on each side it should win), it fails to keep in mind human error etc.
Now to address your point, that 1st position you showed wouldn't be reached with meas white because
and I literally don't see anything wrong with the 2nd position.
This is not to say black's losing, just that white is slightly better.
In the second position, white’s pawn structure is massacred, his queenside pawns are literally nonexistent, and the knight is under serious pressure while black catched up in development.
Please explain how white is slightly better in the first position.
White’s slightly better here, too. White’s slightly better in every position you ranked above the Sicilian.
caro and scandi are my favorite tho sometimes ill play sicillian in bullet games
May 30, 2023
0
#108
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
you still think caro is better
and coz who cares about objective result (draw)
is it easier for white to achieve a better position vs the sicilian
and give examples
people here have given examples of sicilians where black has a bunch of counterplay and caros where black is just spaceless and behind development
if no examples, it doesnt merit that high ranking imo
and modern defense... lets just ignore it
Finally, I get to talk about openings other than the Sicilian! 
I feel like there isn't any Caro Kann lines that don't accomplish equality or close to it if black opens well.
Can you show me something bad for black in the Caro Kann?
Yerachmeal wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
you still think caro is better
and coz who cares about objective result (draw)
is it easier for white to achieve a better position vs the sicilian
and give examples
people here have given examples of sicilians where black has a bunch of counterplay and caros where black is just spaceless and behind development
if no examples, it doesnt merit that high ranking imo
and modern defense... lets just ignore it
Finally, I get to talk about openings other than the Sicilian! I feel like there isn't any lines that don't accomplish equality or close to it if black opens well.
Can you show me something bad for black in the Caro Kann?
Not that white is winning, but white is slightly better in most of those lines.
May 30, 2023
0
#110
In the caro cant
- white has a larger center with more/quicker development
- white has a space advantage
- white can easily hold an advantage the whole game
- black is usually left passive
- blacks light squared bishop is typically a liability and will be kicked around the whole opening/middlegame
- the best black can play for is a draw
white can also easily attack black without having to risk much
May 30, 2023
0
#111
TheSampson wrote: In the second position, white’s pawn structure is massacred, his queenside pawns are literally nonexistent, and the knight is under serious pressure while black catched up in development.
Please explain how white is slightly better in the first position.
White’s slightly better here, too. White’s slightly better in every position you ranked above the Sicilian.
Is it though? Black has pressure exerted on d4, what pressure does what have exerted on black's center? In fact, while the engine puts them at exactly even (at least on my computer) I'd definitely prefer black in the set up you just showed for the French defense.
thats a very biased opinion against the caro kann, black doesn't have to play passive and more times than not black has way easier positions to play than white. its a opening which is iconic for positional players as it establishes good defense with positional play suiting many endgame players who try to grind the game like myself. saying that the best black should play for being a draw is more like a joke than being respectful to the fact that it still scores really well solidly
May 30, 2023
0
#113
TheSampson wrote:
Yerachmeal wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
you still think caro is better
and coz who cares about objective result (draw)
is it easier for white to achieve a better position vs the sicilian
and give examples
people here have given examples of sicilians where black has a bunch of counterplay and caros where black is just spaceless and behind development
if no examples, it doesnt merit that high ranking imo
and modern defense... lets just ignore it
Finally, I get to talk about openings other than the Sicilian! I feel like there isn't any lines that don't accomplish equality or close to it if black opens well.
Can you show me something bad for black in the Caro Kann?
Not that white is winning, but white is slightly better in most of those lines.
It's like that for the Sicilian too. Not that I really see how white is better.
May 30, 2023
0
#114
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
In the caro cant
- white has a larger center with more/quicker development
- white has a space advantage
- white can easily hold an advantage the whole game
- black is usually left passive
- blacks light squared bishop is typically a liability and will be kicked around the whole opening/middlegame
- the best black can play for is a draw
white can also easily attack black without having to risk much
Yeah, maybe show me a line where you think that's the case.
Yerachmeal wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
Yerachmeal wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
you still think caro is better
and coz who cares about objective result (draw)
is it easier for white to achieve a better position vs the sicilian
and give examples
people here have given examples of sicilians where black has a bunch of counterplay and caros where black is just spaceless and behind development
if no examples, it doesnt merit that high ranking imo
and modern defense... lets just ignore it
Finally, I get to talk about openings other than the Sicilian! I feel like there isn't any lines that don't accomplish equality or close to it if black opens well.
Can you show me something bad for black in the Caro Kann?
Not that white is winning, but white is slightly better in most of those lines.
It's like that for the Sicilian too. Not that I really see how white is better.
I was joking
May 30, 2023
0
#117
Kowarenai wrote:
thats a very biased opinion against the caro kann, black doesn't have to play passive and more times than not black has way easier positions to play than white. its a opening which is iconic for positional players as it establishes good defense with positional play suiting many endgame players who try to grind the game like myself. saying that the best black should play for being a draw is more like a joke than being respectful to the fact that it still scores really well solidly
I fully agree. I'm not overly good in the endgame, but when I play the caro I am more likely to wind up in good positions going into the endgame. I actually don't play it all that often, because there are a few others that are more fun, but it's really good from a gameplay perspective.
the positions you show are mainline and kinda biased as your saying that anyone takes white simply cause they are acting like brute force instead of realizing black has many good ways to achieve counterplay and equalize fast? thats the point of the caro kann defense. not anyone will take white in those positions you shown cause it just displays the idea which is to punish white for overextending and pushing limits beating them at a positional game where they burn out
I get it now. The OP is confusing weaknesses with imbalances. The OP dislikes the Sicilian because black tends to have wildly different positions and goals from white. He doesn’t even know- he showed lines in the Sicilian where black has a much better position than in the Caro-Kann lines he showed and said that in the Sicilian, white easily gets a minor advantage- an advantage multiplied in the Caro-Kann lines shown by him and Sea_Turtle.
Yerachmeal, not related to the current topic unfolding, what do you think of black’s position in this line?
question, will you respond to my comments?
Sorry, I can't really keep track of who's who, please repost a comment for me tor respond to.