If I want to play the Reti, what do I do when Black refuses to play 1. ...d5?

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Avatar of Greenatic

The question is easy for me to ask, but I've had a hard time answering it.

I'm primarily a Bird's (1. f4) and Nimzo-Larsen (1. b3) player as White, often transposing between the two.  As Black, I play the Scandinavian, Modern Variation (1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6) and the occasional French (1. e4 e6) against 1. e4. I play the English Defense (1. d4 e6 2. c4 b6) against 1. d4, hoping to transpose into a safe variation of the Dutch (usually 1. d4 f5).  I've been experimenting with the Reti in an attempt to diversify my opening repertoire, and I feel comfortable playing the Reti after 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4.  However, Black has a lot of options other than 1. ...d5.  Does anyone have some ideas as to responses?  I'm especially worried about 1. ...Nf6, as it seems very drawish--which I would like to avoid.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thank you.  Smile

Avatar of Unmaster

Those systems are not especially confrontational, it's as simple as that.   Chess as systematized by, say, Tarrasch, was as simple as getting mobility, occupying the center, and taking advantage of whatever (presumably obvious) deficiencies your opponent had.    Reti and that school (Breyer, Tartakover, Nimzovitch to some degree) didn't play that way, happy to develop in the wings and take advantage of the (presumably obvious) deficiencies in the opponent's position.   ;)

A really classic example of this is the big famous Reti-Capablanca tilt in 1924.  Remember, Capa generally plays pretty classical straight-up-the-gut chess, and Reti decides he's not going to engage in that.  It's a neat fight, and Reti wins because he's just so darn clever, it's as simple as that.   But he's shifting pieces, trying to find a target, and eventually does so.  

So the idea here is that you have to be super clever in the middle game and also a very good endgame player.   You aren't seeking any particular advantage from the opening, it's not like the QGD where you are going to force open c file and put rooks on it, nothing as concrete as that in the plan.   It's more about picking away at or creating little weaknesses in your opponent's game and exploiting them through 30 moves.   Not everyone's ideal way to play.

Avatar of Swindlers_List

Well, 1.Nf3 Nf6 I play 2.c4 to 'prevent d5' (d5 now is possible but not a good move).

After
2..e6 you could play 3.d4 and go into mainlines content in having avoided some of blacks options (you must deal with Bogo, QID and benoni this way)
or something like 3.g3 or Nc3 to avoid any benoni or nimzo ideas.

With 2..g6 I recommend you play 3.Nc3 (3.b4 is an attempt to keep a ret flavour, but i dont like it) nows their last chance to try a grunfeld idea, though it doesnt work too well (3..d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 nxc3 6.dxc3!) even though you think the reulting queen trade may be boring I believe white is firmly better because it is difficult for black to find a plan.

Returning to 3.Nc3, now: 3..Bg7 going for a kings indian.
I suggest you find your favourite mainline KID and play it, transposing by say 4.d4 and 5.be2, or something like that.

Avatar of DrSpudnik

This is the eternal problem of the would-be Reti player. Your options are to transpose into something you actually like/feel comfortable in. Mainly, you have the English & the Q-pawn openings. But since you like 1.b3, you may want to just play 2.b3 instead.

Avatar of lizardman100

this happens to me LOTS when i go in for the reti

Avatar of Greenatic

The thread lives again!  XD

I'm starting to use 2. g3 as my response to non-d5 responses, and going for a KIA or later transposing to a Reti or Benko/Hungarian.  I've had good results so far.

Avatar of DrSpudnik

This you call living?

Avatar of Greenatic
DrSpudnik wrote:

This you call living?

Well, we're discoursing, aren't we?  And the "life" of a thread is proportional to the amount of activity in a given amount of time?

So you're contributing to the livelihood of this thread.  Checkmate.

Avatar of Greenatic
chessmicky wrote:

I want to play the French Defense, but my opponent won't open 1.e4, whay should I do?

Generally, if you would like to ask a question about another opening, you should start another thread.  Welcome to chess.com, by the way!  Smile

It depends.  If your opponent plays 1. d4, you can play 1. d4 e6 and hope for them to play 2. e4.  If they play something else, though, you probably won't end up with a French Defense game.

Avatar of tmkroll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohf79-nlekc Seirawan talking mostly about 1. c4 (to prevent d5) but you may have similar play in the 1. Nf3 2. c4 move order.

Avatar of lizardman100
Greenatic wrote:

The thread lives again!  XD

I'm starting to use 2. g3 as my response to non-d5 responses, and going for a KIA or later transposing to a Reti or Benko/Hungarian.  I've had good results so far.

this is the second time i have heard about going into the KIA from a this point, but i havn't been able to find any info on it

Avatar of TitanCG

You just play Nf3, g3, Bg2, d3, Nbd2 e.t.c; I don't think Black can prevent this.

Avatar of ThrillerFan

The Reti can not be played as a Standalone Opening in the same manner that the Queen's Indian can't be played as a Standalone Defense.  After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3, 3...b6 is horrible, and Black then needs to decide between the QGD and Nimzo Indian.  Same deal here.  You can't play the English expecting to completely avoid the Reti or a Transposition to a QP Opening.  The same can be said here.  You can't play the Reti without knowing at least some outside lines, like the symmetrical Enlgish.

Avatar of Ubik42

I just play the sicilian, it doenst matter what my opponent plays. e4...d4...Nf3...a3, who cares? I just keep merrily playing the sicilian najdorf as if nothing happened.

Avatar of Greenatic
ThrillerFan wrote:

The Reti can not be played as a Standalone Opening in the same manner that the Queen's Indian can't be played as a Standalone Defense.  After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3, 3...b6 is horrible, and Black then needs to decide between the QGD and Nimzo Indian.  Same deal here.  You can't play the English expecting to completely avoid the Reti or a Transposition to a QP Opening.  The same can be said here.  You can't play the Reti without knowing at least some outside lines, like the symmetrical Enlgish.

But couldn't you play a KIA instead of an English?