Is pirc defense still reliable?

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rishabh11great
vishnu_vijay_93 wrote:
rishabh11great wrote:
vishnu_vijay_93 wrote:
rishabh11great wrote:

Garry Kasparov.

If Garry said Sicilian leaves no weaknesses in blacks camp I would have left chess

Fischer said, "1e4, best by test", ok so ur wish now if u want to leave, sorry for trolling xD

Fischer was a madman

He was mentally unstable but a genius in chess

rishabh11great
vishnu_vijay_93 wrote:

And I never said I would leave for Fischer saying stuff like these.

ok

LM_player
Yes, Pirc Defense is fine. I’d argue that it isn’t very practical for a main weapon, though. White has many options of attack, though, and from my experience, White’s early kingside attacks can be deadly if Black comes unprepared. Granted, Black will have more experience with the Pirc, but Black will mostly be responding to White’s moves, making it easier for White to main out a specific favorited line against Black.

I don’t like it because it is too much like playing tennis at the broad side of the court. You have to be prepared to defend from so many variations and angles. My opponent, meanwhile, can choose whatever attack he is comfortable with. Psychologically speaking, it requires a good deal of dedication, and it still seems little to no easier to play even in the main lines. Gameplay is always just that little bit easier for White. And White’s sidelines will be difficult if not impossible to punish. For all the extra work you’ll do learning to defend from a White sideline, there’ll be no real decisive reward most of the time.

It just doesn’t seem very practical. However, as many have already stated, it makes for a good surprise weapon or if you really need a win as Black. Some people come up with very complex plans in order to undermine White’s pawn center, in which case it is there for those who wish to take on the challenge.

I don’t really mind playing against the Pirc. Personally, I like deploying the Chinese Attack (though Austrian is okay too). It’s all or nothing with this line. You either break open the Kingside or die trying. White typically has a very clear cut plan here, and Black will usually be forced to counter on the Queenside. It feels way easier to play White, and Black will struggle to attain a concrete advantage. White’s space advantage is huge, though this may end up being a double-edged sword, depending on how the game pans out!

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Be2 Bg7 5. g4(!?) O-O 6. g5! Nfd7 7. h4 (followed by a possible f2-f4 or h4-h5 with both bishops, the queen, a rook, and soon a knight all eyeing on Black’s kingside. Black’s castle may soon become his coffin.)
KahanDesai
LM_player wrote:
Yes, Pirc Defense is fine. I’d argue that it isn’t very practical for a main weapon, though. White has many options of attack, though, and from my experience, White’s early kingside attacks can be deadly if Black comes unprepared. Granted, Black will have more experience with the Pirc, but Black will mostly be responding to White’s moves, making it easier for White to main out a specific favorited line against Black.

I don’t like it because it is too much like playing tennis at the broad side of the court. You have to be prepared to defend from so many variations and angles. My opponent, meanwhile, can choose whatever attack he is comfortable with. Psychologically speaking, it requires a good deal of dedication, and it still seems little to no easier to play even in the main lines. Gameplay is always just that little bit easier for White. And White’s sidelines will be difficult if not impossible to punish. For all the extra work you’ll do learning to defend from a White sideline, there’ll be no real decisive reward most of the time.

It just doesn’t seem very practical. However, as many have already stated, it makes for a good surprise weapon or if you really need a win as Black. Some people come up with very complex plans in order to undermine White’s pawn center, in which case it is there for those who wish to take on the challenge.

I don’t really mind playing against the Pirc. Personally, I like deploying the Chinese Attack (though Austrian is okay too). It’s all or nothing with this line. You either break open the Kingside or die trying. White typically has a very clear cut plan here, and Black will usually be forced to counter on the Queenside. It feels way easier to play White, and Black will struggle to attain a concrete advantage. White’s space advantage is huge, though this may end up being a double-edged sword, depending on how the game pans out!

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Be2 Bg7 5. g4(!?) O-O 6. g5! Nfd7 7. h4 (followed by a possible f2-f4 or h4-h5 with both bishops, the queen, a rook, and soon a knight all eyeing on Black’s kingside. Black’s castle may soon become his coffin.)

true, black needs to be prepared at good depth to crush white with his defense

binomine
vishnu_vijay_93 wrote:
rishabh11great wrote:
vishnu_vijay_93 wrote:

First of all,Sicilian is very double edged,saying that it has no weaknesses is wrong,when u play the Sicilian u have slow development and a weak kingside which is prone to attack. If these are not weaknesses I don't know what are

ok but it is atleast better than others, MUCH BETTER

No opening is better than any other,each opening has its perks and weaknesses

The Kadas opening would like a word with you. 

 

BlushingMinute

No opening is better than any other,each opening has its perks and weaknesses

 

Is this really true? Hikaru says some openings are rubbish

vishnu_vijay_93
BlushingMinute wrote:

No opening is better than any other,each opening has its perks and weaknesses

 

Is this really true? Hikaru says some openings are rubbish

Nah,it might be rubbish for his level but not for every chess player

IMKeto
BlushingMinute wrote:

No opening is better than any other,each opening has its perks and weaknesses

 

Is this really true? Hikaru says some openings are rubbish

Again....it would depend on the skill level of the player(s).

1.h4 wont work for many, but is certainly playable for beginners.

KahanDesai
IMBacon wrote:
BlushingMinute wrote:

No opening is better than any other,each opening has its perks and weaknesses

 

Is this really true? Hikaru says some openings are rubbish

Again....it would depend on the skill level of the player(s).

1.h4 wont work for many, but is certainly playable for beginners.

So is it like, pirc defense also has its limits, and CANNOT be played after a certain rating level


, or its just that players dont play it, but if we play its fine?

IMKeto
KahanDesai wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
BlushingMinute wrote:

No opening is better than any other,each opening has its perks and weaknesses

 

Is this really true? Hikaru says some openings are rubbish

Again....it would depend on the skill level of the player(s).

1.h4 wont work for many, but is certainly playable for beginners.

So is it like, pirc defense also has its limits, and CANNOT be played after a certain rating level


, or its just that players dont play it, but if we play its fine?

I do think there is a reason you dont see it at the elite level, but its playable for anyone else.

binomine
KahanDesai wrote:

So is it like, pirc defense also has its limits, and CANNOT be played after a certain rating level


, or its just that players dont play it, but if we play its fine?

 

GM Ben Finegold once said, "I play the same garbage chess you guys play, the difference is that I never blunder and you blunder all the time." 

Every move in chess has a cost. For example,  a pawn, once moved, can never be moved backwards. The point of the pirc defense is to let your opponent develop, and then attack the weaknesses they create when they over extend their pieces. 

There is a range where the pirc defense is wonderful, when you are strong enough player to identify weaknesses and when your opponents are weak enough to still make positional errors. At high level play in classical controls, no one makes the kind of positional errors that make the pirc defense useful.  

pirc42

GM Rapport beated Shankland, Yangyi and Dubov with pirc-defense. All are 2700+ rated!

KahanDesai
pirc42 wrote:

GM Rapport beated Shankland, Yangyi and Dubov with pirc-defense. All are 2700+ rated!

Amazing stuff!!! thats very noteworthy!, if you can share the games it would be amazing!

pirc42

They are all in Chess.com-database. Just tell the searching program pirc-defense.

Die besten Schachpartien von Richard Rapport - Chess.com

pirc42

And i forgot GM Grischuk vs GM Rapport 0:1:

Alexander Grischuk - Richard Rapport (2017) - Meister-Schachpartie - Chess.com

 

but ok it was blitz game ;-)

 

KahanDesai
pirc42 wrote:

And i forgot GM Grischuk vs GM Rapport 0:1:

Alexander Grischuk - Richard Rapport (2017) - Meister-Schachpartie - Chess.com

 

but ok it was blitz game ;-)

 

But like, classical is already too good, defeat in blitz against pirc still possible

Kudos to GM Rapport!!!

GamboldV

It's a great club opening for players 1200 and up.  A lot of players haven't seen it much, and if you know the four or five main lines, you'll get a good game.  Too many amateurs try tp play GM openings like the Sicilian Sveshnikov or the Semi-Slav and they wonder why they don't improve.  Play with the tools that work best at your level.  If you want to stay at .500 and never move up the ratings classes, just keep playing those Ruy Lopezes....over and over and over...

 

SwimmerBill

IMO Pirc-Modern is fine--but it's not a defense where you can keep a draw in hand and possibly win if white is inaccurate. I played it in the 70's for a while. The last time, I played it as black against Marty Appleberry [a master] and won then in the next round Steve Spencer [another master] played it against me and he won. Both games were exciting - ones I am still proud of.

nighteyes1234
KahanDesai wrote:

So is it like, pirc defense also has its limits, and CANNOT be played after a certain rating level
, or its just that players dont play it, but if we play its fine?

 

Its pretty simple. If you know, you know. If you dont know, then you dont know.

Why not play 1g4? Your answer is grin.pngepends on what a person has memorized for moves.

You havent a clue.

KahanDesai
nighteyes1234 wrote:
KahanDesai wrote:

So is it like, pirc defense also has its limits, and CANNOT be played after a certain rating level
, or its just that players dont play it, but if we play its fine?

 

Its pretty simple. If you know, you know. If you dont know, then you dont know.

Why not play 1g4? Your answer is epends on what a person has memorized for moves.

You havent a clue.

I feel it is not exactly the debate of memorization, of course it is a part of it but for eg. 1g4 can easily be refuted even if you dont have the line in your head because you know the concepts of how to punish your opponents. While this is a factor in pirc but still people have not been that successful to decode it completely in case of pirc and hence, what i think is that pirc can be a very psychological weapon as it might frustrate your opponent who knows he is better but could not find the win (not at elite level ofcourse)

That is why I am curious about pirc's worthiness