Is The Chameleon Slav c5 Line Really Best?

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KeSetoKaiba

Read my annotations in the diagram above and then my question is whether I should stick with the c5 line I like [with the capture on b6], or if I should instead change to this 6. h3!? line I don't really know anything about yet?

KeSetoKaiba
Levy wrote:

SETO KAIBA?

Yes. I discuss my username in this blog post:

https://www.chess.com/blog/KeSetoKaiba/kesetokaiba-username-meaning

The chess.com usernames you tagged also haven't logged into chess.com in literally years, but okay lol. Let's have this forum thread for the opening question I had though xD

In the meantime, you can check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/@kesetokaiba/videos

Geelse_zot

I have no experience with this line , however we all know en-passant is forced

RayDuqueIII

Thank you for sharing.

Ray Duque III, GMBD

ThrillerFan

Can't say I am up on my Slav theory as I play the Exchange Variation as White and the Dutch as Black, but my inclination would be to say that no it is not. While it does immobilize Black's queenside and prevents b5 from being good, it is very committal very early, and gives Black a fixed goal, ...e5. Thinkabout the Kings Indian. What gives Black the green light to play ...f5? Enticing d5 out of White, taking pressure off of e5. If the center is fluid, ...f5 is a horrible loosening move for Black. With d5 played, it's a great move. So the commitment of c5 makes ...e5 and immediate target for Black.

killjoy178

thanks for sharing! i'll try to use it

crazedrat1000

EDIT: I admit I didn't read your post, and thought you were talking about the move 5. h3 which, as it turns out, is a fascinating move... Some of the positions look like they resemble known slav / semi-slav lines with a6 and h3 thrown in... which could make it a practical way of dealing with the Chameleon. But most importantly black is screwing up at a very high rate with an early Bf5 / b5, both of which are terrible, and isn't often playing the precise continuation with e6 (which looks like a boring line... and chameleon players want to avoid a semi-slav setup). Likewise dxc4 appears to be a slav main line, but with a 2 centipawn improvement for white, it seems. So you'd just play that like a slav main line which you already will face probably.

Probably it will work very well. After looking at both lines I'd actually go with 5. h3 instead of the h3 you posted there. White is getting a winning advantage immediately in like 50% of games after 5. h3 due to 5... Bf5 or 5... b5.

Jklenear
Levy wrote:

SETO KAIBA?

he’s a 3rd rate player using 4th rate openings

odyson

I played the a6 Slav in a couple of OTB tournaments. My experiences were pretty straightforward: If black gets in e5, he's at least equal and probably better. If white clamps down on that square and prevents e5, then black's position can become very cramped and passive.

Obviously I'm no expert on this line, though I did achieve a crushing position as black against a 2385 player in an OTB team match. I took a draw because it gave my team a win (and I'm lazy).

Chess_Player_lol

i would stick to c5. I think it offers a decent position and more importantly its simple to understand. this a6 slav line isnt super popular so you dont want to dedicate too much time to this one specific line.

crazedrat1000

If it's a rare line you should really prefer not to play the most common continuation, and instead look for some equally obscure response. If a viable one exists it's the better option.

rwik103

This opening is pretty interesting. Also I didn't know it was called the chameleon opening!

Fleau2002

you can try a4 a5. if you would like to push flank pawns it seems more fun. I just made up this plan with the engine B)

Fleau2002
Fleau2002 wrote:

you can try a4 a5. if you would like to push flank pawns it seems more fun. I just made up this plan with the engine B)

and then g3 in response to 5. a4 e6 is like more practical since it's a better Catalan

PainDeLaAldeaDeLaLluvia

Ji

Fleau2002

Ji

KeSetoKaiba
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Read my annotations in the diagram above and then my question is whether I should stick with the c5 line I like [with the capture on b6], or if I should instead change to this 6. h3!? line I don't really know anything about yet?

I think I figured it out. Amazing what a good night of sleep can make you think of versus creating this thread late at night. xD

I believe the c5 line I showed is good, but the reason for the engine h3!? move is BECAUSE of en passant. I don't have to capture en passant and transpose.

In the c5 line recommended by GM Schandorff, the black move is ...b6 and so white playing cxb6 is needed because of the threat for black to capture on c5 and attack white's resulting pawn on c5 from the d4 pawn recapture. The difference is that with ...b5?! White can ignore that because black no longer has the option of exchanging on c5. This means that white can now play a useful move such as h3 to create a retreat square for the bishop coming to f4.

Falkentyne
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Read my annotations in the diagram above and then my question is whether I should stick with the c5 line I like [with the capture on b6], or if I should instead change to this 6. h3!? line I don't really know anything about yet?

The 4 Nc3 a6 systems are rather annoying to play against, and require specialized study for the 5 c5 lines. Most white players are fine going into the old 4...dxc4 slav or entering the complicated Botvinnik or Moscow variations, but one reason why 4 e3 is so popular is it makes 4 a6 rather useless (and you'd be surprised how many ...a6 diehards force this move anyway when white can play Nbd2, and end up with a passive position). But then you have to study 4 e3 Bf5 5 Nc3 e6 6 Nh4 Be4 7 f3 (or 6 Nh4 Bg6 7 Nxg6 or 7 Qb3).

pray_daily

Mainly, a good tactical player as black would feel compelled to push b5 after c5 even when he or she knows an en passant is coming.

KeSetoKaiba
pray_daily wrote:

Mainly, a good tactical player as black would feel compelled to push b5 after c5 even when he or she knows an en passant is coming.

Great for me because I now know after this forum thread and my analysis that ...b5?! is a dubious move and that en passant would let them off the hook too easily.