Is the Grob playable?

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resonantdonkey

?

Hadron

In short, yes it is playable.....

However it really depends against who you play it and under what circumstance.

You will hear a lot of advice that move order X, Y and Z refutes Grob's Attack and this may well be correct BUT refutations are only as good as a player who knows them.

And that is the risk you take

 

LovePixelHearts

absolutely

1. g4 quite possibly is the best opening of all time and the best move of all time you should know this

kindaspongey

"... 1 g4  White weakens the kingside for no real compensation; it cannot be recommended for anything other than blitz games. …" - FM Carsten Hansen (2010)

darkunorthodox88

Basman has dedicated his career to defending the grob and its black counterpart but 2019 chess is a different beast to when he was at his creative peak. This is the age where you can look up the repertoire of any strong player in seconds and have engines in the cloud tell you the best counter at depth 40 to so many openings. The Grob simply wont take you far in that environment at Master level.

as a very rare weapon in your repertoire, with your opponent not expecting it, you may do ok, the non-critical lines arent quite THAT terrible for White.

as a rule, even if you like creative chess, beware of any white opening that leaves you worse than say -0.2 or sa. stick to stuff like 1.f4 1.b4 1.nc3 or the other flank openings (or sideline of more well known openings) to spice your game.  Better to have a repertoire that can last you your whole chess career.

IF you are just a club player looking for fun, by all means make it your main weapon. All good chess clubs, need at least  one maverick.

knightscape007

No hes a vairy bad playr 

Coolio9000

 g4 is a beautiful spectacular wonderful move

IMKeto
resonantdonkey wrote:

?

Any opening is "playable"

Not all openings are good to play.

It depends on your skill level.

Tja_05

resonantdonkey wrote:

?

Yes. Is it good? Well...

kindaspongey

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070668

Arisktotle

Whenever I open with 1. g4, my team substitutes me straight away with the reserve because they know that 2. f3 is on the card next. After taking my pills I return to the pitch around move 15 and comfortably win the game.

Die_Schanze

Its sometimes funny to play such crap openings in blitz games in local chess club against opponents who know your normal repertoire well. But nowhere else... 

MegaCharizardLeo

sure, it was used by decent players before, but if you are serious about chess, you shouldn't use it unless you practically have good knowledge on EVERY lINE

jagulep
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

Basman has dedicated his career to defending the grob and its black counterpart but 2019 chess is a different beast to when he was at his creative peak. This is the age where you can look up the repertoire of any strong player in seconds and have engines in the cloud tell you the best counter at depth 40 to so many openings. The Grob simply wont take you far in that environment at Master level.

as a very rare weapon in your repertoire, with your opponent not expecting it, you may do ok, the non-critical lines arent quite THAT terrible for White.

A counter example of that argument: at the Haarlem Masters 2018 tournament, IM Basman was invited to play. This was a one game per day 10-player round-robin tournament (held 20-28 October), played at classical times controls so the opponents had plenty of time to prepare for their games using engine analysis. In the first 8 rounds, IM Basman played 1. g4 three times (scoring 1.5/3), 1. c4 g5 once as Black, 1. e4 g5 2. d4 h6 once as Black and 1. d4 h6 2. e4 g5 once as Black so his opponents knew he was likely to play the Grob each round. In the last round, FM Van Kerkhof (2371 FIDE) faced Basman (2313 FIDE). A win would give Kerkhof =1st place in the tournament but even a half point would give Kerkhof his 3rd and last IM title. The game went as follows:

 

Despite the fact that Basman could get a clear advantage here as Black with 10...Nxd4! 11. Nxd4 Qxd4! (due to the fork on c2), the 72-year old Basman graciously gave his 30/31-year old  opponent a draw to get his final IM norm, saying he "deserved it". Giving Basman a clear advantage after 10 moves as Black, where his higher rated opponent basically grovelled for a draw in a game that he was desperate to win - well, it's not a bad result for the Grob (or rather, the Borg - the Grob for Black)!

jagulep
pfren wrote:

It does not matter if it loses by force or not, or even how much worse white is after "perfect" play from both sides.

Playing like that is a bad habbit, which won't help you improve at chess- quite the opposite.

Well, it didn't do too badly for Basman, beating world top-ten player, John Nunn, with 1. g4 and another world top-ten player, Jonathan Speelman, with 1. e4 g5. But let's be topical by giving a game by IM pfren's Greek compatriot Spyridon Skembris against GM Borislav Ivkov. Ivkov was the first World Junior Champion in 1951 and played in the 1965 Candidates tournament (losing to Bent Larsen) but, perhaps most notably of all, married a former "Miss Argentina".

 

It could be possibly said IM pfren has a point, but since he spelt habit in a way that makes it  look similar to rabbit, I admit that I am a little Skembris...I mean, skeptical.

TestPatzer

It's playable, sure. But I'd rather have the Black pieces. White is cramped for space, and his good moves are (in my opinion) harder to find.

 

jagulep
pfren wrote:
jagulep έγραψε:
pfren wrote:

It does not matter if it loses by force or not, or even how much worse white is after "perfect" play from both sides.

Playing like that is a bad habbit, which won't help you improve at chess- quite the opposite.

Well, it didn't do too badly for Basman, beating world top-ten player, John Nunn, with 1. g4 and another world top-ten player, Jonathan Speelman, with 1. e4 g5. But let's be topical by giving a game by IM pfren's Greek compatriot Spyridon Skembris against GM Borislav Ivkov. Ivkov was the first World Junior Champion in 1951 and played in the 1965 Candidates tournament (losing to Bent Larsen) but, perhaps most notably of all, married a former "Miss Argentina".

 

It could be possibly said IM pfren has a point, but since he spelt habit in a way that makes it  look similar to rabbit, I admit that I am a little Skembris...I mean, skeptical.

 

We have looked at the game with Spyros and a few other greek players some decades ago. Basically Black is better until he has the unlucky idea of 16...h5?

After something like 16...g5 white may not be directly losing, but he is just watching Black dictate the play due to the very poor g2 bishop.

This may all be correct, but if 16...g5 would have been good for Black, it shows how wise Black could have been to have learnt from seeing White's 1. g4 manoeuvre and employed pushing his own g-pawn 2 squares and also what great foresight White showed by prophylactically pushing 1. g2-g4 on the first move and immediately getting ahead in the g-pawn race.

 

 

najdorf96

pfren wrote:

It does not matter if it loses by force or not, or even how much worse white is after "perfect" play from both sides.

Playing like that is a bad habbit, which won't help you improve at chess- quite the opposite.

indeed. I totally disagree with that premise, in fact, it's more of a bad "habbit" to routinely take "advice" (such as hiss) to heart. To have an open mind, to experiment especially as white and not conform soo readily expands one's knowledge, experience. Find out for yourself, do your own due diligence in openings. Confirm for yourself, genuinely wholeheartedly what is playable or not. When you finally do, that is what I call, a good habit. Not all of us are going to have a great chess career in our lifetime or aspire to (like phren implies his assumption that we all do) like those giving such advice; we just wanna play~and sometimes it's just cool to win with the grob vs unwary opponents! Not like we're gonna run up on Hikaru and beat him up in the future. No no no. Just play it if you want! Cuz playin's always the thing with me! ✌🏽

chamo2074
jesse20100 a écrit :

 but It's ok to play in blitz against people U1400

I get crushed against it when I was at my peak aka 1700

chamo2074
jesse20100 wrote:

@chamo2074 you probably just blundered. But the Grob is only playable aginst those u1400

I did blunder, but it's so hard not to blunder against a tricky opening that you underestimate