Is the Main line of the Fried Liver wrong?

Last month I op'ed "Is Chess a Beautiful Game ?"....I got some interesting responses...Some see it as the game of calculations - that's great !....I see it as a interaction between two ppl creating something, and that's a good thing too, isn't it ? When it brings out hostilities/hurt feelings ?....well that's an ugly thing, wouldn't you agree ?....Let's have fun, smile, joke a bit, and respect one another. It's better this way, isn't it ?

Ok everyone...continue ?

When I ask for clarification of why I am wrong with my analysis of the Fried Liver I am told that I must "pay" $150 for this information. Is that a "productive direction" you espouse?

:)

An International Master gave you his assessment which you countered with Houdini's assessment. Where is your thinking? Where are your questions? Where is the evidence that you are willing to understand what IM pfren means when he challenges your analysis with the suggestion that you do not know how to do "serious analysis"?

I've avoided this thread due to the lack of diagrams, even though most of the analysis presented is playable in my head. But, as I am revisiting my analysis of the Fegatello Attack from six years ago, I've suddenly taken an interest.

Some of the lines you give in your posts here are insensible because I cannot determine where you started. Post #9 9...c6, for instance. Is this a line where White has already castled, or was there a queen move, such as Qe2?

The voice of truth. I suspect he is recycling the same lines.

These are two different variations. The first, while not a Novelty, is almost unknown except for a thread on another site---you will find no high-level tests of this variation even though it is vastly better than 9.a3 and comparable to 9.O-O and perhaps better than 9.Qe4.

4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ Ke6 8.Nc3 Ncb4 9.Bb3!? are the starting moves: 9...c6 10.a3 Na6 11.Nxd5 cxd5 12.d4 Kd7!? (exd4? 13.Bf4 +/-; Be7 was regarded as the main line in another post, but I have found key attacking resources for White in this line. This will be in another post.) 13.dxe5 Kc7 14.Bxd5 Bg4 15.Qb3 Nc5 16.Qc4 b5 17.Qa2 Qd7 18.O-O Rd8 19.c4 with a complicated position slightly favorable to White (Houdini at Depth = 27.

The second line is:

4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ Ke6 8.Nc3 Ncb4 9.O-O c6 10.d4 Qf6! 11.Qe2 (a concession--White is retreating in the middle of the attack---a bad sign.) He can regain that tempo by forcing Na6; Pfren says it is equal after either 12.Ne4 or 12.dxe5, but White seems to have the initiative after Ne4/f3. Without knowing what he is relying on it is impossible to know if he is right. Pfren joined this thread with what he obviously believes is knowledge superior to any of us but chooses not to share it, providing only vague allusions that it exists.

That IM pfrens's knowledge is superior to other posters in this thread strikes me as beyond question. It also seems that he offered his knowledge freely to all but you. You can have it for $150, which is not much more than you paid for Houdini 3 Pro.

I trust an IM when he says that he has analyzed a line in some depth. I know also from my own experience that engines analyzing the Fegatello without human guidance will generally lead you astray. A computer evaluation of +2.46 is often a dead draw. The "advantages" you note in this thread are mostly much less than +2.00 as near as I can tell.

Let's see.

Registered today, played 24 games including 23 bullet ones, then goes straight to this forum.

Hmm...

What's that word that stars with "s" and ends with "ockpuppet" ?

"A computer evaluation of +2.46 is often a dead draw. The "advantages" you note in this thread are mostly much less than +2.00 as near as I can tell."

Quoted for truth.

I am not a fantastic chess player, but I am a programmer who has written a chess engine (rather noddy, plays at about 1600 - 1800 only).

Unless the advantage it is reporting is due mainly to material, you can't trust it to be accurate enough in any position to base your findings on it.

This is due to Search Instability. Even the best chess engines can sometimes look at a position twice with the exact same algorithm and come to a different answer.

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Search+Instability

Search instability is caused by various "speed-up" techniques:

Alpha/Beta: http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Alpha-Beta

Null Moves: http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Null+Move

Aspiration Windows:http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Aspiration+Windows

Primary/Principal Variation Search: http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Principal+Variation+Search

I don't wish to be arrogant, so I will not tell you, I will provide links for you to research. But regrettably, relying on an engine to analyse is only good for seeing if things are CLEARLY bad or CLEARLY good. When it's close...don't trust it.

Nice to have a separate account for bullet. Do take some time to read the site policies, though. There's some stuff in there about Houdini 3 Pro.

I must say that despite the facts that you did not answer my points ; that you seem to know how to check someone's games after your first day here (which is not a piece of cake for newbies) ; that you did not see how pfren's post was maybe arrogant, but also true ; that ratings fluctuate a lot at the beginning ; that bullet ratings do not impress me, and more generally that I do not use ratings to assess one's intelligence ; and that calling me names just does not make any point, I am so impressed by the relevance of your post that I will not answer you anymore.

I've met a few chess players who are not arrogant. None of them are skilled.

GM Judit Polgar is not arrogant; she was very courteous to me when she was a young GM of 13.

Did you ask her to evaluate an opening position with Qe2?

I actually suggested she try Qe8 in the King's Indian; as I recall she lost a game where she tried Qe8 in the King's Indian. I also suggested g4 in a line of the Richter-Rauzer, not realizing, according to her sister Susan, that this was her signature move!

YOU calm down, sir. It's just your mirror.

I think it's a very reasonable price, especially regarding the psychical stress I have to tolerate trying to teach someone who just doesn't seem to understand much about anything...

You weren't banned from Chesspub forums without a reason. Regarding myself, I do not have to blοck you, or stop replying to your utter nonsense- quite the contrary: I will be very cooperative, but not for free... Understood?

I understand that you are a mid-level professional who is fish-food for GM's who is enamored of his own brilliance with precious little else. I am reminded of a comment by Wilhelm Steinitz. When a spectator said to him, "Herr Steinitiz. I don't understand your move." Steinitz replied, "Have you ever seen a monkey play with a watch?"

Go play with a watch.

I understand that your shameless trolling should be attributed, at least partially, to your schizoid personality. However, some of your comments show that you also have a ton of malignity in you. You should really see a doctor (or replace the one who's treating you) before it's too late for you.

Regards.

You should not insult Pfren like this. First off your trolling insult isn't true. Secondly, though he presents a gruff and cynical exterior, in reality Pfren is very sensitive and your insults hurt him dearly.