Jobava-Prie Attack

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SaintMark
poucin wrote:
SaintMark a écrit :

 Why does everyone keep getting the name of this opening wrong?

 The correct name is Mark's Opening:

Marksopening.blogspot.com

Your main variation goes 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 Bf5 4.Nf3 but u should know that Jobava and almost every titled players goes for 4.f3 with g4 in mind.

Your variations are rather innocuous so don't be surprised if we don't call it the Mark's opening...

 

It's the first 3 moves that define the opening. The fact that some players deviate from the mainline after that doesn't justify changing the name of the opening.

my137thaccount
SaintMark wrote:
poucin wrote:
SaintMark a écrit :

 Why does everyone keep getting the name of this opening wrong?

 The correct name is Mark's Opening:

Marksopening.blogspot.com

Your main variation goes 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 Bf5 4.Nf3 but u should know that Jobava and almost every titled players goes for 4.f3 with g4 in mind.

Your variations are rather innocuous so don't be surprised if we don't call it the Mark's opening...

 

It's the first 3 moves that define the opening. The fact that some players deviate from the mainline after that doesn't justify changing the name of the opening.

Not true. With Nf3 played like this it's neither the Jobava nor "Mark's Opening" but the Barry Attack

SaintMark
my137thaccount wrote:
SaintMark wrote:
poucin wrote:
SaintMark a écrit :

 Why does everyone keep getting the name of this opening wrong?

 The correct name is Mark's Opening:

Marksopening.blogspot.com

Your main variation goes 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 Bf5 4.Nf3 but u should know that Jobava and almost every titled players goes for 4.f3 with g4 in mind.

Your variations are rather innocuous so don't be surprised if we don't call it the Mark's opening...

 

It's the first 3 moves that define the opening. The fact that some players deviate from the mainline after that doesn't justify changing the name of the opening.

Not true. With Nf3 played like this it's neither the Jobava nor "Mark's Opening" but the Barry Attack

The Barry Attack is different. This is Mark's opening. I can't actually remember how the Bary Attack goes; maybe I'll look it up on Wikipedia and see if they can tell me.

poucin

Barry Attack :

Which can occurs after Jobava attack move order :

Although the point of Jobava attack is not playing Nf3 : white will play more quickly with Qd2 and 0-0-0. f3 could be used for a pawn.

White can also going for this position after a London system move order : 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.Nc3 etc... But of course, this is relevant if u play against KI players.

Therefore Jobava attack can be seen as an improved Barry attack.

Both being improved Mark's opening ^^

r00k226
The position is fine for white
SaintMark

How is Qd2, 0-0-0 and f3 better than Mark's Opening where you play the more natural developing moves Nf3 and e3, which do more to control the centre? Doesn't putting a pawn on f3 just take away the knight's best square in the opening?

poucin
SaintMark a écrit :

How is Qd2, 0-0-0 and f3 better than Mark's Opening where you play the more natural developing moves Nf3 and e3, which do more to control the centre? Doesn't putting a pawn on f3 just take away the knight's best square in the opening?

Let's consider this line in Barry attack :

Ne4 creates problems for white. Still playable for white but theorically black is fine.

One point being that after Nxe4, d5xe4 attacks the Nf3.

If u play the same without Nf3 :

This is one of the ideas behind Jobava's attack.

Of course, black is not obliged to play this way, and that's another story.

SaintMark
poucin wrote:
SaintMark a écrit :

How is Qd2, 0-0-0 and f3 better than Mark's Opening where you play the more natural developing moves Nf3 and e3, which do more to control the centre? Doesn't putting a pawn on f3 just take away the knight's best square in the opening?

 

his is one of the ideas behind Jobava's attack.

Of course, black is not obliged to play this way, and that's another story.

That seems to be sub-optimal play by black. He's moving the same piece twice in the opening, allowing himself to end up with doubled pawns, then having to "admit" that was a mistake by exchanging pawns on f3 and allowing white to develop his knight while gaining a tempo.

The position after 4 moves in the Barry Attack or Mark's Opening if black plays g6 and Bg7 is actually the Grunfeld reversed/symmetrical variation, transposed. Apparently the move 5 e3 is more common then; whether white plays e3 or Qd2, black just castles.

Conclusion: IMHO, Mark's Opening with Nf3 is at least as good as with Qd2.

poucin

cry.png

ECOA46

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 c5 4.Nb5 is better.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 Bf5 4.f3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.h4 h6 

If black play this 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bf4 a6 stop the idea of Nb5

 

ECOA46

Jobava London System is just like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 Bc4 is the same idea but with Black Bishop on f4 and Nc3

 

my137thaccount
ECOA46 wrote:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 c5 4.Nb5 is better.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 Bf5 4.f3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.h4 h6 

If black play this 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bf4 a6 stop the idea of Nb5

 



ECOA46

Nc3

my137thaccount
ECOA46 wrote:

Nc3

Nc3 wastes a tempo. Black could even gain a draw by playing Qd8 but I doubt he'd want to do that as after cxd4 black has a great position.

 

ECOA46

7.Qa4

my137thaccount
ECOA46 wrote:

7.Qa4


Black has full control of the centre. Why are you trying to defend this opening? Nb5 that early is a definite mistake and white should play e3 first then Nb5.

ECOA46

Bd2

my137thaccount
ECOA46 wrote:

Bd2

Why continue the analysis? Black already has a large advantage, and Bd2 doesn't change anything. As I said, black controls all the central squares, while white's knight is offside on a4 and subject to attack, while white has developed nothing (the bishop does little on d2) happy.png

ECOA46

Yeah but is good game maybe I can 0-0-0

my137thaccount
ECOA46 wrote:

Yeah but is good game maybe I can 0-0-0

The opportunity to castle queenside doens't make an opening good. OK it looks exciting, especially on online boards where castling is animated, but that doesn't make it good happy.png