Learning to punish bad opening moves

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bcdeck

I've recently begun studying openings, and I have a bit of a quandry. I can find a wealth of material on what moves to make against standard opening replies, but I don't see much about taking advantage of weak moves. Some options, like forks and such, are obvious, but I'm thinking of situations where the advantage is more subtle. Are there any resources that talk about what to do in your opening when your opponent gives you an opportunity?

Wou_Rem

These are positional advantages.

rooperi

That is where BIG databases are handy. You not only get the good play, but also the bad, and hopefully what to do about it.

But sometimes you just got to wing it....

BTW, a big mistake, imo, is to try to punish a bad move. If you can figure out why it's bad, see if you can take advantage (more subtle than punish!) There is rarely a one move refutation.

Agent-Carlos-1470

I just simply make the right moves. If my opponent pushes a and h pawns, I takeover the center.

vinco_interdum

read this:

http://www.chessville.com/instruction/instr_gen_play_v_patzers.htm

MathBandit
echecs06 wrote:

Bojan, thanks for game #1. I don't understand what the other two games have to do with 1.a4. I need you to answer my question (what to reply to 1.a4?) because you are the expert 2386. My modest 1700+ person needs concrete answers. Can you be so kind to post two or three of your games or to give me some on the board pointers? Respectfully,yours.


You completely ignored the one person who gave you the best possible advice. It doesn't matter if Kasparov gives you a 10-move variation that will gain a significant edge over White after 1.a4, if you hang two pieces before move 15 you're going to lose every time.

KyleJRM

The OP's question vastly overestimates the importance of openings. An opponent playing a bad opening that doesn't lose material tactically is handing you a small advantage, nothing more.

blake78613

 In his book Chess Openings: Theory and Practice, Horowitz had a concept of the "ideal variation".  In the ideal variation the opponent never made a move to stop the basic idea of the opening.  I found this concept very helpful in dealing with non-book moves.  I don't think this concept caught on. At least I know of no other books that uses this concept.  Nunn will occasionly use something similiar, he will give a variation where the opponent makes a pointless move (usually something like a6) to illustrate a threat.

Archaic71

The real killer with silly opening moves is the loss of time.  By making good opening moves you gain time to develop your attack while your opponent is wasting time shoring up self-inflicted weaknesses.

remme

If your opponent deviates from a main line with a weak move, it creates a weakness in their position.  You will usually have to deviate from the mainline and be creative in order to take advantage of this weakness.  Don't just memorize lines without knowing their exact purpose!  If you know what move they should have played you can think to yourself, "what does the correct move accomplish on the board that this wrong one doesn't?".  If you can answer that question then you will be in good shape.

bcdeck

Excellent article, thanks!

vinco_interdum
bcdeck wrote:

Excellent article, thanks!


My pleasure!

WestofHollywood

White can get away with playing moves like 1. h3  or a4 and often gets a psychological advantage if black thinks he must be able to punish white. Black should be able to equalize, but he certainly can't force a winning position. When I play against this stuff I just try to control the center and develop my pieces. If anything I'm more on guard and try not to overextend.

WestofHollywood
subinde_vinco wrote:
bcdeck wrote:
subinde_vinco wrote: It is excellent - right on the money.

Excellent article, thanks!


My pleasure!


zxb995511
WestofHollywood wrote:

White can get away with playing moves like 1. h3  or a4 and often gets a psychological advantage if black thinks he must be able to punish white. Black should be able to equalize, but he certainly can't force a winning position. When I play against this stuff I just try to control the center and develop my pieces. If anything I'm more on guard and try not to overextend.


Its unfortunate but White can afford to waste time like this in the opening...As Hollywood said, White might not get an edge but there is NO way to refute any opening like this, or any FIRST opening move for white. For black its another story, moving 1....h6 might give him a miserable position but even then i don't think there is any "one move" refutation to these kinds of shenanigans. You just play classical and straight-foward and in the critical moment the enemy may sorely miss that one extra tempo he wasted in the opening.

vinco_interdum

The best way to "punish" bad opening moves is not to try to punish them at all, so much as to exploit the weakesses that they create in the opponent's position. The way to do this, of course, is to strengthen your own position by adhering to sound opening principles. I've learned by bitter experience not to try to "punish" an opponent that plays cockeyed opening moves. One can easily wind up tying onesself into knots and hanging pieces or making other mistakes that the opponent will then use to punish YOU.

ljvankuiken

Old post, but for anybody looking for this article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121025021138/http://www.chessville.com/instruction/instr_gen_play_v_patzers.htm

Abhi_Mary_1997
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PsYcHo_ChEsS

Keep in mind that sometimes good players will play trash openings. I have had it happen many times - a higher rated player plays silly opening moves, and I still lose the game.

I had someone recently play an opening where they push some pawns and then move the king back and forth two or three times before developing. The difficulty with this is the player is pretty decent to begin with and that makes them dangerous, and the wasting time in the opening is hard to take advantage of. I think it makes you want to be really aggressive, thinking "there must be some way to punish this right now" and get a winning advantage within a few moves, when in reality it's probably best to just develop normally and look to slowly build a better position.

rizkisandiyuda

WITH CAREFULNESS AND CAREFULNESS IN READING THE MOVEMENTS OF THE ENEMY, DON'T LETS WE'LL BE FOOLED BY THE ENEMY'S POOR IN PLAYING. REMEMBER SNIPER IS NOT SOUND BUT OFF. THANK YOU