x
Chess - Play & Learn

Chess.com

FREE - In Google Play

FREE - in Win Phone Store

VIEW

Make The Grob Opening Strong?

  • #61
    Lyudmil_Tsvetkov έγραψε:

    The point is that, no one knows for certain what happens in the 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bg4 3. c4 line, as black can not push d4.

    One way or another, the game is close to some kind of equality.

    After 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 e5, neither 3. e4 d4, or 3. d4 e4 make sense, so white must try 3. c4.

    And after 3...d4 black has quite big positional advantage with no tactics at all.

    2...Bg4 leaves the b7 pawn undefended and that is very bad.

    You are wrong almost everywhere.

    Contrary to your belief 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 d4!? while unnecessary is fully playable: 4.Bxb7 Nd7 5.Bxa8 Qxa8 6.f3 - 6.Nf3? d3! wins - e5 with a powerful bind for the sacrificed exchange. However, 3...c6! is uncomplicated, and likely stronger. Black will simply play ...Nf6, e6 etc and ignore the threat to the b7 pawn. After Qxb7, simply ...Nbd7 and Black has better development, much better pawn structure, white's queen is oddly placed at b7 and in danger of being trapped in some lines, plus (worst of all) with the g pawn missing, white's king lacks a safe heaven. In short, a clear Black advantage after just two moves- not such a big achievement for the first player...

    Basman's 1.g4 d5 2.h3 is surely the best out of a bad choice, but after 2...e5 Black has several good ways to get an advantage. Mikhalevski suggests the simple 3.Bg2 h5 (3...c6 and 3...Ne7 are also mighty reasonable) 4.gxh5 Nf6 5.d3 Rxh5 as better for Black, and I cannot see why not.

  • #62

    GM Colovic propose following line in one of his books published in Chessable:

    1.g4 d5 2.h3 e5 3.Bg2 c6 4.d3 Bd6 5.e4 Ne7 6. Nc3 d4. 7 Nce2 Ng6 with expansion on the queenside by ...c5, ...b5, aiming for ...c4 (Colovic).

     

    Another line is 4.d4 e4 is better for black, as white has a weak kingside (Colovic).

     

    What do you think about this prfen?

  • #63
    torrubirubi έγραψε:

    GM Colovic propose following line in one of his books published in Chessable:

    1.g4 d5 2.h3 e5 3.Bg2 c6 4.d3 Bd6 5.e4 Ne7 6. Nc3 d4. 7 Nce2 Ng6 with expansion on the queenside by ...c5, ...b5, aiming for ...c4 (Colovic).

     

    Another line is 4.d4 e4 is better for black, as white has a weak kingside (Colovic).

     

    What do you think about this prfen?

     

    I do not think much- it's rather a matter of taste.

    I thought that 3...Ne7 is best, since it effectively forces 4.d4, but 3...c6 and 3...h5 look fine, too.

    Here is a recent (rapid) game between Basman himself (now in his seventies), and Giri (who played 3...c6). Black won quickly, but I don't think he emerged with any advantage out of the opening. 5...Be6 probably wasn't necessary, and 5...Bd6 was to be preferred.

     

     

     

  • #64

    Many Grob players play this:

    You don't have to learn a particular line to get an advantage you will get anyway because of your higher skill level. Even if the position is equal they will make horrible moves and get an utterly lost position.

  • #65
    pfren wrote:
    torrubirubi έγραψε:

    GM Colovic propose following line in one of his books published in Chessable:

    1.g4 d5 2.h3 e5 3.Bg2 c6 4.d3 Bd6 5.e4 Ne7 6. Nc3 d4. 7 Nce2 Ng6 with expansion on the queenside by ...c5, ...b5, aiming for ...c4 (Colovic).

     

    Another line is 4.d4 e4 is better for black, as white has a weak kingside (Colovic).

     

    What do you think about this prfen?

     

    I do not think much- it's rather a matter of taste.

    I thought that 3...Ne7 is best, since it effectively forces 4.d4, but 3...c6 and 3...h5 look fine, too.

    Here is a recent (rapid) game between Basman himself (now in his seventies), and Giri (who played 3...c6). Black won quickly, but I don't think he emerged with any advantage out of the opening. 5...Be6 probably wasn't necessary, and 5...Bd6 was to be preferred.

     

     

     

    Thanks, I will check it

  • #66
    pfren wrote:
    Lyudmil_Tsvetkov έγραψε:

    The point is that, no one knows for certain what happens in the 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bg4 3. c4 line, as black can not push d4.

    One way or another, the game is close to some kind of equality.

    After 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 e5, neither 3. e4 d4, or 3. d4 e4 make sense, so white must try 3. c4.

    And after 3...d4 black has quite big positional advantage with no tactics at all.

    2...Bg4 leaves the b7 pawn undefended and that is very bad.

    You are wrong almost everywhere.

    Contrary to your belief 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 d4!? while unnecessary is fully playable: 4.Bxb7 Nd7 5.Bxa8 Qxa8 6.f3 - 6.Nf3? d3! wins - e5 with a powerful bind for the sacrificed exchange. However, 3...c6! is uncomplicated, and likely stronger. Black will simply play ...Nf6, e6 etc and ignore the threat to the b7 pawn. After Qxb7, simply ...Nbd7 and Black has better development, much better pawn structure, white's queen is oddly placed at b7 and in danger of being trapped in some lines, plus (worst of all) with the g pawn missing, white's king lacks a safe heaven. In short, a clear Black advantage after just two moves- not such a big achievement for the first player...

    Basman's 1.g4 d5 2.h3 is surely the best out of a bad choice, but after 2...e5 Black has several good ways to get an advantage. Mikhalevski suggests the simple 3.Bg2 h5 (3...c6 and 3...Ne7 are also mighty reasonable) 4.gxh5 Nf6 5.d3 Rxh5 as better for Black, and I cannot see why not.

    The bind is powerful, but I am not certain black can win that.

    Match 2 top engines from 6. f3 to see how this plays out.

     

    On the other hand, after 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 e5 black has very large positional advantage.

  • #67
    Lyudmil_Tsvetkov έγραψε:

    The bind is powerful, but I am not certain black can win that.

    Match 2 top engines from 6. f3 to see how this plays out.

     

    I would not bother that much. After 3...c6! Black has a clear advantage- probably decisive, if white decides to pick back the b7 pawn. Plus, it's very easy to play that position as Black- few things need calculation.

  • #68
    pfren wrote:
    Lyudmil_Tsvetkov έγραψε:

    The bind is powerful, but I am not certain black can win that.

    Match 2 top engines from 6. f3 to see how this plays out.

     

    I would not bother that much. After 3...c6! Black has a clear advantage- probably decisive, if white decides to pick back the b7 pawn. Plus, it's very easy to play that position as Black- few things need calculation.

    3...c6 in what line?

    How can a position be easy to play for a human and need no calculation, when

    there is material imbalance: minor pieces vs rook, pair of bishops for one side, the other lacks,

    the white king safety is compromised, too exposed king, and the pawn structure in general is

    irregular, to say the least?

     

Top

Online Now