MATRIX CHESS

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Windingshu
DrizztD wrote:
Windingshu wrote:
Atos wrote:

Don't you think that to evaluate 'alternative medicine' you would need to understand 'traditional medicine' first ? Otherwise, how would you even know that one is traditional and the other alternative ?


Of course. But wouldn't that go the same for you? Don't you need to know about all medicine in order to know which is best. Just because traditional chess has been around longer doesn't mean it's better.


Yes it does. But, if perhaps it doesn't, maybe the fact that it's what the super GMs play does.


I don't think enough people know about Matrix chess in order for it to become as popular as traditional chess. It's brand new in terms of styles of chess and there is barely any information available except from the source. Hopefully that will change once more people become GMs.

I am brand new to it. I am not blindly following it, a lot of the confidence in Matrix chess that I have displayed through my responses are quotes from Mr. Parham. I am testing this theory to the best of my ability. My progress so far is pretty decent and throughout the next few months I will be closely analyzing my progress and  my understanding of the game.

Atos
Windingshu wrote:
DrizztD wrote:
Windingshu wrote:
Atos wrote:

Don't you think that to evaluate 'alternative medicine' you would need to understand 'traditional medicine' first ? Otherwise, how would you even know that one is traditional and the other alternative ?


Of course. But wouldn't that go the same for you? Don't you need to know about all medicine in order to know which is best. Just because traditional chess has been around longer doesn't mean it's better.


Yes it does. But, if perhaps it doesn't, maybe the fact that it's what the super GMs play does.


I don't think enough people know about Matrix chess in order for it to become as popular as traditional chess. It's brand new in terms of styles of chess and there is barely any information available except from the source. Hopefully that will change once more people become GMs.

I am brand new to it. I am not blindly following it, a lot of the confidence in Matrix chess that I have displayed through my responses are quotes from Mr. Parham. I am testing this theory to the best of my ability. My progress so far is pretty decent and throughout the next few months I will be closely analyzing my progress and my understanding of the game.


Hm, Mr. Parham might want to open own account here, we are not going to burn him or anything although we might not like his theories.

Tactchess

Keep in mind "Mr. Parham's" rating is 1900 (USCF). Grandmaster ranking is often 2500 +. Doesn't that say something?

Or Rybka, ranked something like 3300. It doesn't use matrix chess to evaluate either.

RC_Woods

 

Windingshu wrote:
Atos wrote:

Don't you think that to evaluate 'alternative medicine' you would need to understand 'traditional medicine' first ? Otherwise, how would you even know that one is traditional and the other alternative ?


Of course. But wouldn't that go the same for you? Don't you need to know about all medicine in order to know which is best. Just because traditional chess has been around longer doesn't mean it's better.


This is one of many threads where someone makes claims about a 'completely new' and 'exciting' approach to chess*, nor is it the first one where those challenging this 'discovery' would be warned against being 'dogmatic, conservative and shallow-minded'. I shall call these threads 'Magic Discovery Threads' or MTD's.

I've come to dislike MTD's because

  1. I usually find myself forced to side with those labelled 'dogmatic' (and so on), and I don't like the label 
  2. in multiple instances the OP turns out to be either intellectually lazy or just plain obnoxious. 
  3. MTD's usually lead nowhere

Well Windingshu, you have shown some care not to be plain obnoxious (even if the effort is cosmetical) but I still think your thread is a classic MTD.

My argument behind labeling your thread as a MTD runs as follows:

1. You claim to have 'discovered' something new, very interesting and chess related:

  1.  'Matrix chess' is a distinct system of playing chess
  2. The ideas behind 'Matrix chess' are interesting and warrant further investigation
  3. Professed 'Matrix' players have been succesful, and importantly so because they played 'Matrix chess'. 

Now these are definitely claims about 'something new and exciting', and Windingshu, you definitely warned those who challenged you against being 'dogmatic, conservative, etc..'.

2. I am attracted to the arguments against your ideas. I have found no trouble formulating some alike arguments for myself. (bringing the queen out as early as possible seems too narrow to be 'a system', using 'matrix calculations' to play sounds vague and ineffective, there are no very strong proponents, etc..)

Now this doesn't mean I have to be dealing with your typical run of the mill MTD yet - there is one last requirement - the original poster should be either obnoxious or intellectually lazy. 

3. I think you are being intellectually lazy, possibly just obnoxious.

I think the case against you is particulary strong on the second point. Let me clarify that as well.

You, windingshu, are being intellectually lazy because:

Being intellectually engaged is when you accept the following criteria:

  1. The honorable thing to do when making a claim is to accept the burden of proof. (providing at least some supporting arguments.)
  2. If one of your claims is challenged, the appropriate thing to do is to subject that claim to a honest discussion (arguments VS counter-arguments)
  3. With regard to arguments, one should strive for being clear, concise and above all substantially engaged.

Your behaviour falls short on all three points. I have no trouble pointing out how:

1. You provided almost no initial arguments to support your claims. (and they are claims - you called it 'extremely interesting' and 'extremely successful', and you obviously believe it is a specific way of playing, different and new)

2. When challenged you don't seem to welcome a honest discussion. Instead, you have used personal attacks to denounce most of your critics as 'afraid', 'shallow-minded' etc..

3. You havent put in any effort to be clear and concise. In fact, most of your replies can be described as deflecting - you just say "I can't answer that but someone really trustworthy could". Those few posts where you are providing 'original' arguments are anything but clear and concise. In fact they are highly confusing.**

To conclude - this thread you created is nothing but an MTD, and it indeed seems to lead nowhere. (Though I can use this reply I created on other MTD's too, so for me it has done something at least.)

P.S.

Not to feel like you would want to redeem yourself now, but I can give the arguments why I think your claims are nonsense:

1. The whole idea of calling Matrix chess 'a specific system' is quite absurd. The rules of the game remain exactly the same - it is still chess. Some new principles are not enough.***

2. The ideas behind matrix chess, which you have not articulated very clearly, have no quality of looking interesting. This is because using a matrix is just another way of calculating - and humans aren't calculators by nature. In fact the huge number of positions even a few ply deep firmly assures us that our primary tool for chess prowess is selecting candidate moves. The claim that matrix calculations are simple enough to perform manually while yielding the best move(s) is a very steep one, for which there is no evidence. If it would be true an engine based on it would destroy rybka. The ideas behind matrix chess sound ineffective, and if they are not that is very steep claim whereas the description is suspiciously vague - this all makes it sound more like a hoax than anything else.

3. Those who play 'Matrix chess' have been successful, and this because they play 'Matrix chess'? First of all, I hardly believe 'Matrix chess' to be a valid system, so if they have been successful I would say it is 'just' because they are good chess players. Second of all, if it really worked it wouldn't have only a few proponents. There must be enough GM's willing to be interested by something that really works, and if it does it would eventually catch on. (as happened to many controversial scientific ideas that proved valid - and 'Matrix Chess' does not even have to overcome the middle ages).

* Be it the entire game, the opening, endgame or anything chess related. 

** You are being very unclear / vague, and I wonder if it is on purpose. A good example is made by quoting the following non-answer you gave: "to answer your question, imagine the geometrical pattern created when you combine an X, #, *, +, and diamond on an 8X8 matrix. If you run through this pattern for each piece you will find unique squares referred to as "coincidence squares". When these squares are occupied they interlock specific pieces' geometries in ways that would exploit your opponent's weakness.

*** It is hard to take 'Matrix chess' serious as a system. All the rules of the game remain the same, so how distinct can it be? You seem to think that 'Matrix chess' stands opposed to 'classical chess'. But Classical chess incorporates playing styles as varied as those exhibited by Karpov, Tal, Capablanca etc. If all that is one system, than I can't believe Matrix chess is distinct enough to be another system. (It is funny that Nimzowich called his famous book 'My System', but I'm sure he would have happily agreed that most of his system is every GM's system, like getting rooks on the 2nd/7th rank etc...)


WaterAlch

Very impressive RC. Very very :)

I only made one comment prior to this in this thread, but you expanded exceptionally well on not only the topic, but the discussion as well.

 

To Wind:

I dislike playing the age card, so I'd rather play the knowledge/experience one on this.  Knowledge: 1900, 2000, let's even say to 2200. If that is the highest matrix chess, would YOU claim that to be successful?

For me, i'd say it proves it made it some distance, for I myself am no where near such ratings. Yet for a system to be claimed successful, is that high enough?

Experience: Basic methods of learning have shown its effectiveness as successful and that is proven by rating comparison of the 2000 matrix chess player an a 2800 GM (or however the titles work out).

It may peak your interest and curiousity, as it did mine when seeing the link. However, I want to reaffirm my original comment long ago, and more-so by suggesting to do a strong comparison between the classical methods taught verse the matrix method.

LarryTroxler
Windingshu wrote:
LarryTroxler wrote:

Um guys and ladies,

First my apologies if I missed this being said already - I followed this thread for a while but maybe not all the way through, but...

Isn't the "Chess Drum" a parody site? It advocates a new styleof chess where black moves first, to offset the racial inequality that currently exists in the game!

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the site meant to be a joke??


No, the site is not a joke. I am not sure I understand the reason they said that but I'm guessing it's because they are a site that is dedicated to African American people who have acheived a lot.

My best guess is that it is a joke to go along with the African American theme of the site. Not 100% sure on that tho.


If it's a joke, that's too bad because it let me not to read the rest of the site.

I think it first ran across it from a google search, and for a few seconds I took it seriously (the idea of a chess variant where black moves first), before I got the joke. But because it was on the main page, it led me not to take the rest of the Chess Drum seriously.

polydiatonic

Thank you RC.  But I'm afraid it won't help because this windbagshu is a TROLL. Trolls don't care about facts, logic or interesting conversation.  They just like the attention.

 

Please don't feed the pretend parham troll.

RC_Woods
polydiatonic wrote:

Thank you RC.  But I'm afraid it won't help because this windbagshu is a TROLL. Trolls don't care about facts, logic or interesting conversation.  They just like the attention.

 

Please don't feed the pretend parham troll.


You are probably right Smile

Windingshu

Awh man, everyone got so quiet.

Just started a blog, if you're interested enough in this check out my blog:

www.matrixchess.wordpress.com

It's brand new and I'm still learning the site, so bare with me. Thanks.

NevetssteveN

I am a student of Parham's and have only been playing matrix chess for about a year. I would like his system works, and have helped me to beat players much more experienced than I. Even though i'm not very good, I think over time ANYONE could improve their game vastly.

NevetssteveN

I am a student of Parham's and have only been playing matrix chess for about a year. I would like his system works, and have helped me to beat players much more experienced than I. Even though i'm not very good, I think over time ANYONE could improve their game vastly.

pdela

Ummm... matrix chess

matrix_chess

ivandh

^ is what I thought of

Windingshu

haha! I ilke it.

Windingshu
azure9 wrote:

Windingshu, can you please explain how made up commonplace symbols can be simply randomly attributed to pieces and then somehow interrelate in a meaningful way? There is just no logic in the ideas you've put forward.


No azure.

polydiatonic

TROLL ALERT.  Please don't feed the troll.

GTchbe

Wow.  This is really odd.  I recently played a game today where my opponent played 2. Qh5, although I was playing sicilian.  By luck, I came across this video later on in the day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ_OeiUJQrc), and by some more luck wound up seeing this thread.  Interesting.  I read through some of the first page, but I'm not reading through anymore, haha.  So I'm not sure if any of you have already seen this video (FM Dennis Monnokrousos on chessvideos.tv, just the first 10 minutes or so) but in the beginning he goes through a little history about the matrix system (which he blantantly calls "garbage", hehe) which I thought you guys would find interesting if it was not already sorted out through the first eleven pages.

BigTy

Wow, I find it hard to believe that this thread has gone on for so long about such a stupid opening. Seriously, why would anyone play this crap? Just because Naka messes around with it once in a while in a bullet game doesn't mean it's any good.

Windingshu
BigTy wrote:

Wow, I find it hard to believe that this thread has gone on for so long about such a stupid opening. Seriously, why would anyone play this crap? Just because Naka messes around with it once in a while in a bullet game doesn't mean it's any good.


It's not just an opening, slick. Next time do some research before you attack something.

twah

this garbage is still going on?!