My System against the Modern Defense

Fezzik, I do see the ...c5 idea quite frequently.  Often, you can use ...c5 and ...Nh6 together.  I play c3 when I see ...c5.  The ...Nh6 idea is tricky, and I think it is a good approach against f4 systems personally.  I would probably like seeing ...Nh6 less personally.  It looks innocent, but it is truly annoying!   I have had quite a few players use it.  I classify the idea as "frenchy" - the idea of working to cripple d4, and the pawn center in general.  I don't think it prohibits White from playing his idea, but obviously Black has more firepower aimed at f5 also. I would think ...Nh6 is better, but I guess that boils down to preference. 

I do agree that after ...c5 c3 cxd, I don't care much for White's setup.  The d-pawn is too loose for my liking normally.  But I haven't yet ironed out a setup with the pieces that I am 100% comfortable with in this setup.  Maybe if I can play a line with a rook supporting the d-pawn, maybe that would help me more...who knows?  But that is the joy of this discussion - thanks for posting your ideas, they help me learn!

I don't like that for black?! can't white just play dxc5 dxc5 QxQ KxQ and then continue normally? Then black can't castle etc... hmm I suppose thats not disasterous, but i wouldn't be comfortable in those kind of positions as black, or even maybe as white! A matter of personal tasting ofc.

Also I don't see the point of Nh6, it looks quite stuck. May some1 explain a bit further?

After dxc5 black can also play Qa5+ and after that Qxc5 or dxc5.

I don't understand Nh6 either, is the purpose of that move to put the knight on f5 after black plays d5 at some point?

We can take a better look at dxc5, I have used these ideas in these structures.  It may very well be better to relieve that pressure, and opt for c3 , instead of forcing the d-pawn to remain on d4.  I hate that!  :-)

Yes, ...Nh6 has a few goals.  One is the obvious, to allow the bishop free roam of the diagonal.  Second, it still can hop to g4, but more importantly, it covers f5.  Nf5 can be a bit annoying, as it slows down a bit of White's steam.  It is like facing Nh3 against the Dutch.  If you didn't know, you would think it was a silly move - but it has strong positional motives.  It is a good move, and ...Nh6 definitely fits in with Modern Defense prospectives.  Also, in some cases, Black can also play ...f6 -Nf7.  Not saying that is best, but it is an option, and then ...e5 (if possible) to fight in the center. Or ...g5!?  So anyway, consider in the French, with Nge7 or Nh6 systems, where Black is seeking to cripple the pawn structure, focusing his energy on d4.  

oh I see, lets the bishop hit d4 =)
I didnt know white was aiming for a kingside attack anyway, was there steam to begin with? o.o im not very familiar with these positions because I don't play f4 which may be a big mistake. Actually i always end up not in the greatest position against the modern, but seeing f4, i might try it out. Ive never played f4 with liking, eg against the sicilian, because I just dont like the king exposure. ah well.

It is a preference thing.  There are many good lines with f4 in them.  I know that Fezzik is right.  Many times, Black has good resources to counter the exposed king in f4 lines, but at the same token, there are many Sicilian lines with f4 in them that are strong.  I guess it does come down to understanding the position. 

Yeah, Be3 behind d4 would be optimal, but it is a bit hard when you see Nh6, as it has two ways of hitting e3 - g4 and f5.  To prohibit Ng4 h3 is fine, but to prohibit Nf5, you also have to play g4.  h3-g4.  In the meantime, Black can play the pesky ...Qb6, hitting d4 and b2 (see what I mean about Frenchy?!?), and so you need some other idea to support b2.  This is the pesky nature of this system, and it is solid and good.  White has to be careful not to over-extend himself.  This often results in a shattered pawn structure.  I was fortunate in a game last night in live where I faced my opponent and they began to shatter my pawn structure, but they gave me tactical opportunities that helped me win.  I can say that I was lucky to have won, I guess.

doesnt e4 stop Nf5? what happened to e4?

When I first started playing chess, I was 7 and I didn't know any theory at all. I didn't know the 4 move checkmate, I didn't know the value of pieces, I didn't know how to open and I didn't even know the most simple tactics. I used to think that 1. h4 followed by 2. Rh3 was a good opening and even better if my opponent took with his bishop because I thought bishops were the second strongest pieces on the board (the queen being the strongest).

 the move list variation looks horrible for white. Flexbile queen side options? I dont see any. It may be book but I hate it =P Oh im such a picky player, easier to just play e4 and d4, then later f4 then I suppose =O

sometimes black moves ...Nc6 first before moving the queen to a5.

Shadow, Nf5 is possible if White advances to e5. 

I dont get it, if black plays c5, just play Nf3 and get a comfortable sicilian dragon =)

My system against the Modern? Target f7, f7, and f7 again.

We could also look into the d5 move order, this is the point of the forum, to discuss these ideas.  Propose a line for discussion.

Bresando, I will look at this more later...what is your take on my dxc5 idea?

I have added dxc5 lines to my pgn. Fundamentally the summary is "i have no idea"

Well, one thing we can see is that White has a lot of firepower aimed at the kingside,and can work for f5 via Nh4.  Normally, the Na3 is good in systems when Black has played ...d5, as e5 is more vulnerable.  That being said, the knight can transfer via c2 or c4 to e3, where it also controls f5.  There is also some potential for h3-g4, which I normally like, but not so sure here...hmm.  I wonder if Nh4-f5 is the best approach, preparing to crack the kingside open.