Na3 sodium opening is it any good or am I a fool for liking it...???

so true. I've been utterly destroyed by some strong players playing Na3. 

except it is not true

you didn't work in a 'Cl'. not impressed.

Any first white move is playable. The only two that immediately give some trouble to White to defend are 1.b4 and 1.g4.

1.Na3 "develops", unlike 1.f3 for instance. Of course it is not going to hunt actively for initiative, central control, etc. but it is fully playable. KarolusMagnus' "refutation" assumes White goes for tactical variations (which is then a bad idea, but not a forced one)

any first move is playable?  What?  Some first moves are stupid and shouldn't be played.

Irontiger I was just responding to the line the guy with the creepy clown face mentioned. I wasn't saying Na3 is unplayable, I was saying the line clown face said was his favorite was unplayable.

Perhaps one among us can share a game where they played the Sodium Attack against a decent opponent (about the rating ~1600) in live chess blitz... ? 

Okely dokely, your wish is my command.

Not internet blitz but internet turn based correspondence against a decent opponent

Something a bit quicker over the internet involving a queen sac

An example of not what you play but how you play it and what you can get away with

Hadron, until your opponent completely dropped two major pieces in the first game, I'd say black has an advantage.

The second game also, the opponent played terribly... Where do you find opponents with ratings like that that suck so badly?

I am not saying they are not stupid - I am saying you do not get an immediate disadvantage doing so. Of course, if someone plays a weird first move he is not likely to defend it correctly, but that's a side issue. Obviously 1.h3 should not played, obviously it is stupid, but it's well playable.

And of course this only applies to White - 1.e4 f5? is probably already losing.

Oh, and from Hadron's second game (off-topic, but hell, you are not forced to try it) : (I have not checked the lines extremely carefully, please point out any refutations)

EDIT : the puzzle is wrong - 20...Rg1+ is a double check, hence 21.Kxg1 is forced after what ...Rg8 mates fast. Cooked by Hadron !

some white first moves white does get an immediate disadvantage though...e.g. 1.g4?

Oh good lord. Last time I will respond to a request for games.

Condude2.

Thank you for your input. If I may:

>Hadron, until your opponent completely dropped two major pieces in the first game, I'd say black has an advantage.<

Look again, it was only 1 peice and that was because it was part of a faulty combination. As for Black having an advantage, maybe yes, maybe no. After he allowed Nxe5, the position took on a Vennia Opening theme and the many books I have on that subject tend to suggest Whites advantage (or in this case Black) is minimal.

>The second game also, the opponent played terribly... Where do you find opponents with ratings like that that suck so badly?<

To answer your question, the chessbase server and if you think the ratings scheme sucks so much take it up with them. I am sorry, I did not realise that when I responded to the request for some games I had to filter them to much your level of quality assurance. How about you show us some your games with 1.Na3?

Irontiger.

Like wise thank you for your input. I can only say that quite alot is possible with the benefit of hindsight (could of, should of, would of) especially when you do NOT have the pressures of a clock to worry about.

As for your analysis. It is wrong. 20...Rg1+ is mate in 4 at most

And finally

>Obviously 1.h3 should not played, obviously it is stupid, but it's well playable.<

What is a stupid move? I would've thought as long as any move is played with a consideration in mind, it would be far from stupid.

Regards to you both.

okay, I'll grant that there are some gambits and things that are shown to be unsound, but I have to agree with Irontiger, g4 and b4 and maybe f3 are the only seriously compromising first moves.

Also, here is not quite a master level game that features Na3.

Hadron, sorry about being so aggressive in my last post. I didn't see that he would get the rook back. Because of that, I thought that he just flat out dropped 8 pts. worth of material, which nobody above 1000 does. Looking deeper, I see what you mean. I still stand by my initial thoughts about the opening, but not the ratings of the players. I for one don't play Na3. 

Like I said, I apologize if my post came off as extremely rude (which I'm pretty sure it did).

irontiger there is a hole in your argument 1. b4 is decent and white is not defending, where 1. g4 is just bad/  i know its been played for shock value/ but 1.b4 is clearly better, even being played by nigel short. 1.b4 and for that matter 1.Na3 are better than h3/ h4/ g4/ f3/ and Nh3. birds opening is ok i guess but it does weaken the kingside. Na3 allows instant (=) but white is not worse

later

goommba88

If you want to discuss the merits of 1.b4, there are other threads for that.

There is no flaw in my "argument", because I did not make any argument, I simply claimed 1.b4 and 1.g4 to be bad without providing evidence for it, because 1-it is not the thread for it and 2-true believers are impermeable to logic. I have seen numerous threads about a dubious or even outright refuted opening following the same pattern of promoters giving some lines, refuted by others, then claim that it's still good enough if you are not Houdini etc. with insertion of a growing percentage of insults. I do not want that thread to go that way if it can be avoided.

Your claim, however, rests on Nigel Short having played 1.b4, which is a flawed argumentation because GMs have played plenty of crap in non-serious games - Nakamura is routinely playing the Parham, the king's gambit is coming back now and then although any GM knows it's inferior to standard stuff, Ivanchuk played the Budapest in the last Candidates (less crappy than the rest, I must admit).

My belief of crappiness order on first moves, from most to least crappy, without proof, is :

g4

b4

a4/h4/h3 (in no particular order)

f3

c3 (there is the point where Black starts to have to fight for equality)

d3/e3/Nh3/Na3

Nc3/a3 (tons of transposition tricks, hence why it's so high in the list)

b3/g3 (slight preference for b3)

e4/d4/c4/Nf3

f3 is the WORST move you can make on turn 1

g4 and b4 have some merits