Nimzo Indian 4 Bd2

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gundamv

Just looked through my old Nimzo-Indian games and discovered that I scored horribly in this line:

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 Bd2

My most frequently used answer is: ...Bxc3 5 Bxc3 Ne4.  I know that is the wrong approach now.

So, I have two questions:

1. What is the best way to deal with 4 Bd2?

2. What are some common plays in 4 Bd2?

3. Are there any books on the Nimzo that cover 4 Bd2?  I have Nimzo Indian: Move by Move, but sadly, it does not cover 4 Bd2.

blasterdragon
waffllemaster

If Bd2 is a problem then go study some endgames.  After that read Pachman.  Then a pawn structure book.  The some more books on the endgame, then go through some game collection books like Botvinnik or Fischer.

Then learn the ideas behind the opening of your choice.  All this should take a few years.  After that you can memorize some openings moves like what GM somebody did vs Bd2.

Of course at that point it wont matter what white plays when he leaves opening book early because you'll understand how to play chess.

Your other option is to memorize 100,000 games.  You can decide which is easier to do Laughing

Clemenz

here comes the experts

edit:just joking

waffllemaster

Well, my comment may not be very useful to gundamv in the short term, but that's my opinion anyway.  It wont hurt my feelings if you ignore it or think it's a bad idea :)

abiogenesis23

4.Bd2 is just a bad move by white, and you should be able to obtain equality easily as black.  Just follow up with normal Nimzo theory:

 


 



sluck72

News flash: Bd2 is not the losing move. Just in case you were in doubt! :)

blasterdragon

bd2 gives black equality nothing more nothing less

Irontiger

From my five years of NID, 4.Bd2 has never won against me, but that's probably due to the fact only bad players use it.

It just doesn't give White anything. Maybe not already the equality for Black, but that's kind of a waiting move, and this does not work in the Nimzo where Black can wait longer than White (the Bc8 to b7, castling kingside... and then let's see). Of course 4...Bxc3 ?? is a very serious positional mistake and the only reason White played 4.Bd2 - so why play it ?

nspann
plutonia
Irontiger wrote:

 Of course 4...Bxc3 ?? is a very serious positional mistake and the only reason White played 4.Bd2 - so why play it ?

 

Double question mark is blundering a forced mate.

4...Bxc3 might be a dubious positional decision but I wouldn't even call it a "mistake". It is not clear at all how the bishop pair will be superior in a centre that will most likely get locked.

If you don't believe this, I looked it up the resulting position in a database and white won 42.7% vs 37.1% of black wins. That means: white has no tangible advantage.

Irontiger
plutonia wrote:
Irontiger wrote:

 Of course 4...Bxc3 ?? is a very serious positional mistake and the only reason White played 4.Bd2 - so why play it ?

 

Double question mark is blundering a forced mate.

4...Bxc3 might be a dubious positional decision but I wouldn't even call it a "mistake". It is not clear at all how the bishop pair will be superior in a centre that will most likely get locked.

If you don't believe this, I looked it up the resulting position in a database and white won 42.7% vs 37.1% of black wins. That means: white has no tangible advantage.

1- I agree more or less that "??" was over the top - of course it usually means a serious blunder, which 4...Bxc3 is not ; I used it not as a reference to the objective evaluation of the move (for instance 4...Ba3 ?? would be a blunder) but to the lack of plan the Black player is displaying with such a move.

2-The center will not "most likely get locked" if White pays attention to what he is doing.

3-How many games in your database, and what are the average ratings ? Because it's an obscure sideline, I doubt it has been played in "serious" games (ie games between opponents of equal >2200 strength).

plutonia

89 games, so I would say it's statistically significant. It's not just master games though.

 

I agree with you that black is diplaying a lack of a plan. I wouldn't call it a sideline, I'd call it "inaccuracy", and of course you won't find many GMs doing an inferior move for no reason.

But the point I wanted to make with my post is that even if black knows nothing about the opening and plays badly, the advantage for white in similar cases is minimal. That's because black played a nonsense, but didn't create any weakness in his camp.

We shouldn't be dogmatic about opening theory; even if the opponent doesn't know it, there's still a whole game ahead. I can't count the times in which my opponent played weird stuff and I started underestimating him (e.g. if he doesn't know theory he can't be good, right?) and I ended up worse because I wasn't play seriously.

Spinaltap

Nothing wrong with Bd2, it's just passive and throws away any chance of an edge.

D_S_Oliver

I have a question. Why would most O-O on the fourth move? There are exactly 0 threats on the horizon for the black king, as we don't plan on advancing d6 anytime soon.

 

As a NID and as Nimzo-Larsen attacker (as white), I prefer to seize the initiative and instead of O-O, play b6 and leave castling for after you play f5 and has a solid center. You just have to be wary of answering Qa4+ with Nd7 or castling before you play Nd7-Nf6.

 

Example: 

 

D_S_Oliver

There IS an even better idea than my last post:

 

 

 

 

MayCaesar

I would approach it like this:

 

 

If white doesn't play 5. a3, then still just develop as usual in the Nimzo-Indian. The d2 bishop will be an awkward piece.

r2d2bb8
Burguulkodar wrote:

I have a question. Why would most O-O on the fourth move? There are exactly 0 threats on the horizon for the black king, as we don't plan on advancing d6 anytime soon.

 

As a NID and as Nimzo-Larsen attacker (as white), I prefer to seize the initiative and instead of O-O, play b6 and leave castling for after you play f5 and has a solid center. You just have to be wary of answering Qa4+ with Nd7 or castling before you play Nd7-Nf6.

 

Example: 

 

 Can't white just do Nf3 and stop all of black's play? I know there still is the strong knight on e4, but it can't do everything.

 

LeventK11111111

Thank you so much, everyone!