Old Indian Defense Theory?

Can anyone give me a general rundown on this opening?

I think I can figure out some ideas. Looks like you can almost maneuver around like you would as black in the Ruy, with Re8, Bf8, g6, Bg7 type stuff. Maybe bring the queen knight over to the kingside like you would as white too. I know c6 has to be played at some point, but Im not entirely sure when, or when the following d5 should be played. Too early with c6 seems to lock up the center prematurely, too late and I think the backward d pawn could turn out to be a real problem.

I'm interested as well, including the Ukrainian variation of the Old Indian too.

Also, can these defenses be used against moves other than 1.d4? If not, then what to do?

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 is a fairly common defense.  You'd have to be winning to patiently defend the endgame after 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ which is actually not too bad for Black.  4.Nf3 Nbd7 gets into a Philidor setup while avoiding some of White's sharper tries.

There is also 3...Nbd7 which has the benefit of avoiding the Endgame variation but offers White 4.f4 e5 5.Nf3.

Someone was telling me, unless I mistunderstood him, that his repertoire for when he is Black consisted Old Indian (Ukrainian Variation) for everything except 1.e4. He would use Philidor for 1.e4. Is this possible? Only knowing Philidor and Old Indian (Ukrainian Variation) for Black? You don't need anything else?

So my question above--is that possible? To only know Old Indian (Ukrainian Variation) and Philidor and be able to respond to anything White plays when you are Black?

Yes although nowadays 1...d6 is a much better way to get into the Philidor than 1...e5.

You'd have to have something against 1.Nf3 d6 2.d4.  (2...c6 or 2..Bg4 perhaps?)

You also need something against 1.c4.  (1...e5 is not a bad way to start)

The book Pawn Structure Chess has an entire chapter on the old Indian pawn structure. I like the idea of capturing on d4 and playing against White's center. This can be done in the Philidor and the old Indian but the tactics and resorces for both sides change because White has a pawn on c4.

Good information here. Thanks.

Then what do you guys recommend for both Black and White?

Playing only Old Indian and Philidors...I think I'd quit chess instead lol

I'm looking to complement my french defense. I usually run KID since it still gets me a pawn chain that I like to break down. And it's just a good universal defense. I could care less for philidors defense. I tested and played around with a lot of e4 defenses and inevitably went back to the French. Looking to do the same with d4. Do you still have counter play kingside like the KID? Or a queen side push similar to a Breyer or chigorin Ruy? Or is the play just in the center. I like the idea of just exd4 and sticking the knight at e5. But I don't know where it goes from there

@Goob63: So you aren't running the KID (very complex with all kinds of variations), but rather the more universal and easy-to-learn King's Indian Setup it sounds like.

ill be honest, I tried playing the old-indian and philidors for about 4 months or so. It was a big struggle in quite a number of games. It felt like my counterplay was lucky and white ALWAYS was better no matter what I did as black.

I suppose it's good to have some kind of back-up universal or pseudo-universal system for Black and White, while learning a more ambitioud repertoire requiring more theory.

Then also have some surprises and fun things to throw in once in a while. Gambits. Traps and tricks. Weird and/or uncommon openings...

I know someone who always plays KIA as White. As Black, he plays King's Indian Setup for everything except 1.e4, and for that he uses the Pirc.

Any thoughts by anyone on anything mentioned above?

You're really putting a lot of effort into learning chess the laziest way! 

I second that.

The old Indian is more about ideas than theory unless you end up playing ...e4 at some point. Then it gets complicated. But I'm assuming you want to avoid theory so I think the best idea is to look at games and try to learn that way.

It's not "bad" but it's certainly passive. I use the exchange Philidor only to avoid theory. KIDs and Sicilians are great but there's a lot of theory and a lot of tabiyas that can be played on autopilot for some time. 

I'm pretty sure everyone that plays the KID or sicilian knows exactly how to get some kind of theoretical attacking position even if they don't understand it. In the Philidor White's advantage is obvious but it doesn't "play itself" either. 

The other point, at least to me, is that I'm only interested in getting a middlegame and playing. I have found that even uncommon openings lead to "normal positions" at some point but without theory as a guide people have to judge the positions on their own. 

At any rate there's a game to be played. 

Annotated by GM Pogonina:

The difference is monumental.

The King's Indian Defense (KID), played by Black, is very theoretical and complex with many variations White can take you on.

The King's Indian Setup is pretty much just a set pattern of moves as Black that don't really vary. I believe it can be used as a defense to just about anythinug, and takes a very short time to ld. It is basically a universal system for Black. However, you should play something elese against 1.e4 (e.g. Pirc or Philidor). The idea is you are trying to get to a middle game without being crushed and without spending too much time on theory. Good to have in your back pocket, but as is being pointed out, not the most ambitious plan.