Paleface Attack: What should I do?

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jumpingchesshorse

Hey there, I've been casually playing chess for a while-and have always enjoyed the game; especially the Kings Indian Defense, which has worked well for me.  As I begin to play in tournaments however, I have stumbled upon the Paleface attack.  I often find myself getting overwhelmed in the center by this center-seizing maneuver, and find my king side fortress under great pressure- do you guys have any suggestions of systems that have worked well for you in the past against this?

 

Ziggy_Zugzwang

It might be better for you to think of a good move in any particular position rather than 'systems'. We all of course like systems that negate the need to think - alas if only it were that simple - but chess would lose its charm !

 

Anyway, the move IMO that calls to be played is d5. If white plays e4 we can defend a Blackmar Diemer, so an antidote for black there might be called for. Black will then need to play defensively, but objectively is better - although patience is required. If instead of e4 after our d5, white can play Nc3 and we may start thinking of a c5 break at some point -thematic in d4/d5 setups...

Sqod

Ditto to 2...d5. Look up the Gedult Opening (1. f3 e5), which is similar. After trading ...dxe4 fxe4 White will have a dangerous hole at his f2-square that Black's queen will constantly be eyeing for a potential ...Qh4+ attack. You'll probably want to get ...e6 in there soon, though, to hold the center against the pawn push d5.

jumpingchesshorse

Hey, thank you for the input guys!  I've played 2..d5 every time against the paleface since you answered, and it has been working out fantastic; Suuper appreciate it!

The_Ghostess_Lola

There's lotsa strengths to f3. Especially if u castle Q-side.

chessking2151

d5

Vercingetorix75

uh...well I'm a big fan of the saemish KID. But this f3 was played too early. At least he needs to play c4 first. If you don't play d5, he may get the saemish sort of position he wants. If you do play d5, he wont. So play d5.

Yigor

Palmface attack would be a more appropriate name. tongue.pnggrin.png

supware

 

 

Someone's trying this out on me!  It looks bad for White but that doesn't mean I'm not terrified grin.png

 

It seems Black is much further ahead in development, but I see how I could struggle to seize an initiative with all the space White has.

wayne_thomas

Here's Magnus playing the Palmface Attack.

supware

Palm captures face: a dubious move

Strangemover

This will likely transpose into a Blackmar-Diemer gambit.

poucin
sup_bro a écrit :

 

 

Someone's trying this out on me!  It looks bad for White but that doesn't mean I'm not terrified

 

It seems Black is much further ahead in development, but I see how I could struggle to seize an initiative with all the space White has.

What's the point of 3...Nc6?

Try to play quickly in centre so 3...c5 and then Nc6 or even Qb6 if white develops Bc1.

pretzel2

well first of all your opponent will try to circle the wagons, so you know what he's aiming for and can take appropriate countermeasures.

supware

I won tongue.png although I imagine that's not a surprise

RubenHogenhout

After   this setup from white that I have nevert seen before it is clearly that white want to play e4.

Black can do various things. First If he is a pirc of King indian player he can allow e4 by playing 2....d6 or 2...g6.  After for example  1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d6 3.e4  black can play 3...g6 to enter a Pirc or he can also play 3...e5.  This you can get also after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 e5  and you have the same position.  After 4.d5 nlack can play the interesting 4...Nxe4!? variation.

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 g6 3.c4 d5 we can also enter a Grunfeld Indian with f3 that Anand played once.

You can also enter the samisch variation after 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 g6 3.e4 d6 4.c4 Bg7 5.Nc3 0-0 6.Be3

 

But if you want to prevent the e4 move there is only one move and that is 2...d5.

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 white can play the blackmardiemer gambiet after 3.e4!? after all  and after 3....dxe4

4.Nc3 exf3 5.Nxf3  black has several good options.  5....Bg4 and 5...g6 for example. 

But white can also play 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 3.Bg5

 

 

 

RubenHogenhout

And then you can enter even a Nimzo with f3 after 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 e6 3.c4 d5 4.Nc3 Bb4 

And even a Classical French after 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 e6 3.e4 d5 4.Nc3 c6 5.e5 Nfd7 6.f4 c5 7.Nf3

supware

Here is the game, now that it's over happy.png

 

 

InsertInterestingNameHere

Sup, if Black wants to transpose into a BDG, shouldn’t they play Nc3 on move two? Is there any particular advantage to doing it this way? Curious.

InsertInterestingNameHere
revtony wrote:

I hate it when I run into ridiculous openings and trick openings. You try to learn chess and learn how play soundly and then run into people doing unsound things that defeat you.  It doesn't happen twice because you go learn how to stop it, but it's annoying when you're trying to learn and run into jokers.

Also, if an unsound thing defeats you, that’s your fault lol. If it’s unsound, learn the refutation, and that’s not always obvious. The BDG’s refutation is a counter-gambit in the center with e5 or c5, but that isn’t always immediately obvious, and if you’re below master level, it’s okay to play.