Playing against the Queen's Indian as White

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misayan07

The Queen's Indian is one of the most popular responses to 1. d4, occurring after the moves 1... Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6. I would like to start a discussion about White's best response to this defense. There are three main variations:

4. g3 (Classical)

4. a3 (Petrosian)

4. Nc3 (Nimzo/Queen's Indian Hybrid)

Which one gives the best chances for White to win without taking excessive risks, and what are your thoughts on this in general?

ThrillerFan

My thoughts are that White's chances to win are better by avoiding it and playing 3.Nc3 or 3.g3.  3.g3 is the Catalan and beats Black to the Diagonal.  3.Nc3 forces Black to play a Nimzo-Indian or Queens Gambit Declined to prevent e4, or a Benoni via 3...c5 to disrupt the White center before he plays e4.  Note that 3.Nc3 b6 is terrible and does nothing to prevent e4 by White.

I would never play 3.Nf3 as White because it feels like Black has way better chances of drawing and is ultra solid in the QID.

misayan07

I agree, I think that if White wants to win, 3. Nc3 or the Catalan are better options. If White wants to be more solid with 3. Nf3, what do you think is the best QID variation?

ThrillerFan
misayan07 wrote:

I agree, I think that if White wants to win, 3. Nc3 or the Catalan are better options. If White wants to be more solid with 3. Nf3, what do you think is the best QID variation?

 

Can't help you there.  I played the Nimzo-Indian and Queen's Indian for maybe a year over the board in two different instances and never had issues against any line in the QID.  Actually, if memory serves me right, I won my final round of the 2005 World Open playing the Black side of a QID (one of only two times in eight tries that I've cashed at that tournament, the other being 2002 winning the final round on the Black side of an Advance French), and I recall playing it in the 4th round of either the 2010 or 2011 tournament in October in DC and while I only got a draw, I had little to no problems achieving it.  I mainly quit playing it because of the Nimzo and Catalan.  I see no reason to allow it.  Therefore, I have no answer for you!

gd610

I am 100% a d4 player as white, and although I usually play the Catalan, Kasparov popularized 4.a3 against the QID and had excellent results with it. I would look at some of his games.

misayan07

Thank you, I have a book on the Indian defenses and it has a good section on the QID. It has some Kasparov games that I think should be illuminating. If I see an interesting one I'll post it here.

jeremylchandler
Nice
joseb84

To give a black QID player's view, I find 4. Nc3 the most frustrating response as it takes things back to Nimzo territory, which while I don't mind (indeed I play it regularly) avoids many lines in three Classical or Petrosian that are fun to play as black

SeniorPatzer

Side question for the OP:  Why is your diamond red?

joseb84

Optimissed wrote:

I very much prefer playing against Nimzo-Indians and I use variations with an early a3 and usually a delayed f3, so that rules the hybrid out for me although Nc3 isn't a Nimzo at all unless the f8 bishop comes to b4.

General principles have it that a Q-side fianchetto is best opposed by a K-side one since if the Bs come off, the K can defend the weak squares.

So g3.

Optimissed wrote: that rules the hybrid out for me although Nc3 isn't a Nimzo at all unless the f8 bishop comes to b4. True, but I feel 4...Bb4 is the sharpest response for black

darkunorthodox88

I think g3 lines of QID take a lot of bite out of the position. White remains solid and slightly better, and there is always the problem of king vs queen fianchetto dynamic. That is, in positions where white has already castled short, the  king bishop is naturally protected vs the queen fianchetto which often is unprotected for a long time. This often allows the possibility of traps in white's favor.

darkunorthodox88

this is completely personal in taste, but i would much rather face queen's indian vs nimzo indian, so suggesting nc3 over nf3 first sounds a little weird to me. Black has great winning chances in the nimzo indian, especially if he inflicts a permanent pawn structure weakness, and a flexible pawn structure which lets him play for both wins and draws. Playing QID for win is no easy task if statistics are used and white isnt cooperating.

i concur with suggesting 3.g3 though as a possible solution.

drmrboss
misayan07 wrote:

The Queen's Indian is one of the most popular responses to 1. d4, occurring after the moves 1... Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6. I would like to start a discussion about White's best response to this defense. There are three main variations:

4. g3 (Classical)

4. a3 (Petrosian)

4. Nc3 (Nimzo/Queen's Indian Hybrid)

Which one gives the best chances for White to win without taking excessive risks, and what are your thoughts on this in general?

 

All of these three moves are strong moves, and theoretically they all should end as draw if the game were played by perfect players with unrestriced time access. However, among imperfect chess players with restricted time control, it is up to your choice whatever variation that your feel more comfortable to play or whichever have more winning chances to you.

 

For me, I use Leela Neural Network's opening book and her analysis.  I noticed that her preference is 4. g3. (It is the best winning statistics for her during her 60 millions + games training) 

misayan07

What about Petrosian's variation 4. a3? Kasparov often used the sequence 4. Nc3 Bb7 5. a3 to enter it, but what if you play 4. a3 straight away? I've found a lot of theory on 4. g3 but I don't really know too much about 4. a3.

misayan07
Optimissed wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

this is completely personal in taste, but i would much rather face queen's indian vs nimzo indian, so suggesting nc3 over nf3 first sounds a little weird to me. Black has great winning chances in the nimzo indian, especially if he inflicts a permanent pawn structure weakness, and a flexible pawn structure which lets him play for both wins and draws. Playing QID for win is no easy task if statistics are used and white isnt cooperating.

i concur with suggesting 3.g3 though as a possible solution.

It's a less balanced situation in the NI than in the QI. Yes, black can inflict pawn structure damage and in some lines can win a pawn or in others set up a central blockade. But if white is an aggressive player who is very aware of move order variations, surely white gets full compensation in activity. Personally, I find it easier to set up an attack versus a Nimzo-Indian than against a Benoni .... especially that Benoni where black sacs a pawn on b5. Forgotten what that's called for the moment.

The variation with ...b5 is the Benko Gambit.

 

What you were talking about with the Nimzo-Indian giving more chances to both players is true, that's why I play 3. Nc3 way more than 3. Nf3. But I'm wondering, what would be a more aggressive way to play against the Queen's Indian, because the 4. g3 variation is very drawish.

misayan07

Yes, that's right. What are some of the specific lines for 4. a3, especially against 4... Ba6? I know that that move is superior to 4... Bb7, which is nevertheless an acceptable and good move.

misayan07

I have some knowledge based on 4. Nc3 Bb7 5. a3, but does anyone have info on the "real" Petrosian variation 4. a3 Ba6, information would be highly important to me. Thank you!

misayan07

Yes, it's not necessary to play it immediately, but 4... Ba6 is (I believe) the most common response to the Petrosian variation.

misayan07

According to the Chess.com opening database, it has a 30% win rate, while 4... Bb7 has a 25% win rate.

misayan07

And I think that 4... Bb7 is regarded as more drawish and solid, while 4... Ba6 is a more aggressive move by nature.