Question about the italian game from black's perspective.

Unless you for some reason think this variation gives white a strong attack.

But that doesn't have anything to do with Bxc3

And why would black play that way?? Still has nothing to do with 7. Nc3 Nxe4, the position in question.

And in post 46 15...Nf5 is -+

i just showed you the version where white doesn't just blunder the knight for no reason

Black is winning in post 50, as Nxf7? is a major mistake.

And post 47 was responding to post 45, as while I was writing it post 46 hadn't shown up yet.

I feel like I am not getting a response.

@blaster: You seem to forget that black can also sensible moves and will not just move his king around till he is mated.

• In post 46 black will not move his king around in an attempt to help white mate but instead play Nf5 as already noted by shepi and be better.
• In 45 after 10. Qb3 check why would black play his king around again ? Instead 10. ... d5 leads to equality (personally i like the simple d5 better than Ne4 btw)

I'm surprised so many people have let this go on without posting some obvious corrections.

The 7.Bd2 Nxe4 line leads to a pretty equal endgame - White's only (very very small) chance for an advantage involves some hard-to-find moves and the winning chances are practically nil. And the correct line is not 10...d5 but instead either 10...Ke8 or 10...Kf8 which should lead to the same position after 11.Qxb4 Qe7. The line blasterdragon posted involved a bad move 13...Nd6 for Black instead of the standard 13...Re8.

I think White's best try in the Moller is the Bayonet attack with 12.g4 (after the obvious 7.Nc3 Nxe4 8.O-O Bxc3 9.d5 Bf6 10.Re1 Ne7 11.Rxe4 d6) because 12.Bg5 Bxg5 13.Nxg5 h6 14.Qe2 (14.Nxf7 is a blunder because of 14...Kxf7 15.Qf3+ Nf5 16.g4 Rf8 as previously posted by shepi. 14.Qe2 gets the piece back right away.) and Black plays easy-to-find moves 14...hxg5 15.Re1 Be6 16.dxe6 f6 17.Re3 c6 etc and Black is slightly better.

12.g4 O-O (12...h6 13.h4 is interesting) 13.g5 Be5 (13...Bf5!?) 14.Nxe5 dxe5 15.Rxe5 Ng6 16.Re1 looks pretty equal.

• I do not see anything wrong with 10. ... d5 please explain why a kingmove is any better ? After 10. ... d5 11. Qxb4 Rf8 there is nothing wrong with the black position.
• g4 is the best try but instead of the direct Ng6 perhaps 15 . ... Qd6 is better (with the idea Ng6 / Bf5) accoording do Gustafson black is slightly better

Because I think White gets an advantage after 10...d5 by being able to use the e5 square.

Well, I don't know anything about that line because 7. Bd2 d5 is perfectly fine for black IMO.

what does IMO mean?

And I miss typed, meant 7...Bxd2+ followed by d5.

The "stupid move that is overly ambitious, as Bxd2 equalizes" according to shepi13 is actually best (7...Nxe4!), and an effortless equalizer.

After 8.Bxb4 Nxb4 9.Bxf7+ Kxf7 10.Qb3+ Kf8 11.Qxb4 Qe7 12.Qxe7+ Kxe7, Black is structurally better, but white can keep things in order with the accurate 13.Nbd2! (analysed by chinese players some fifteen years ago). The position is approximately level, but not dead- both sides can win with a little aid from the opponent.

I am sorry but i really cannot see why 7. ... Bxd2 8. Nxd2 d5 does not equalize just as easy. Sure white might have an outpost on e5 but the black knight on d5 is not exactly badly placed either. The outpost on e5 compensates the weakness on d4 but in my opinion nothing more.

GM's like Karjakin, Kamsky and Smeets play Bxd2/d5 and seem to do  just fine against other gm's like radjabov en Jones

Memorize lots of theory analyzed by random chinese people to find equality, or memorize 2 moves to equalize - Bxd2 and d5. For some reason I think the latter is smarter.