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GreenLeaf14

@HolyKing...you ca try the benoni as well

GreenLeaf14

@Nimzovitc what are the benefits of a move like 1.b3,i ask you since you already play it

ThrillerFan

I have played and studied 1.b3 before, especially as Black.  The following can be said about 1.b3:

1. There is no refutation or forced way to an advantage for Black, but at the same time, if Black knows what he's doing, equality is not difficult to achieve.  If you want an advantage as White, you should play 1.d4, 1.e4, 1.c4, or 1.Nf3.

2. At the lower level, many players don't know what to do against 1.b3 like they do 1.d4 or 1.e4.  At the master level, if you want a win as White, 1.b3 is not best.

3. 1.b3 is commonly used by masters when facing low-rated players as it's not highly theoretical, and so the idea is that they can simply "outplay" their opponents.

GreenLeaf14

thanks but not exactly what i was expecting...what i meant is what does 1 b3 have to offer...eg French  defence gives solidity but blocks bishop....so what does 1b3 do?Does it attack the center with the possible fianchetto???what else?

Expertise87

It offers to attack the center with the possible fianchetto, and possible tactics on the a1-g7 diagonal. Realistically, White intends to play something resembling the Queen's Indian Defense up a tempo, which doesn't promise an advantage.

GreenLeaf14

thanks expertise87

nimzovitch2013

Plus I like to get in f4 (during 1 b3)  when possible, which can get an attack going or kingside pressure. The e5 square is often the focus of the early battle. It's ideas are direct and straightforward. And In a sense white is playing a color complex type strategy. It's got it's own offbeat flavor, but retains enough quality to work well. 

nimzovitch2013
ThrillerFan wrote:

At the lower level, many players don't know what to do against 1.b3 like they do 1.d4 or 1.e4.  At the master level, if you want a win as White, 1.b3 is not best.

 

You have a point. I think 1 c4 makes a good addition to 1 b3. 1 c4 is not as often played as the top three moves are. Seems to me 1 b3 and 1 c4 make for a good repertoire duo when one is looking to step a bit out of the mainstream on the first move but retain quality, and change up which first move to choose as need be. The Dynamic English I like, but not sure how well i could handle it. I do have Kosten's book. The thing about me though is if I play the Dynamic English I'm going to want to play The Sniper. I have a thing about mirror openings. That's why 1...b6 interests me. But if I dare to play 1...b6 then why not The Sniper too. 

ThrillerFan

1...b6 is an inferior move, and should only be played against 1.c4.  If White has no committed to playing c4, he can steer you into an Owen's Defense.  You might argue "but 1.b3 Black hasn't committed to 1...c5". 

In Chess, the extra tempo makes a difference, and not always for the good.  Certain Openings that Black can play, taking the extra tempo for White is not always a good thing.  Also, the misconception that you can just play the same as you would if you were Black is insanity.  A prime example is the King's Indian Defense vs the King's Indian Attack.  In the KIA, white almost never plays f4, and instead goes for h4.  In the KID, Black religiously plays ...f5, and ...h5 comes way later or not at all!

On the flip side, the extra tempo could be vital, and what works for White doesn't always work for Black.  After 1.e4 b6 2.d4 (1.d4 b6 2.e4! is the same thing) Bb7, White should not play Bd3 and c4, but instead play 3.Nc3!  White often ends up with a classical setup, and Black's play is too slow.  I've even seen a high ratio of Greek Gift Sacrifices (the Bxh7+ sacrifice that often is followed up by Ng5 and a Queen move to h5, g4, or d3) in this line.  b6 should only be played if White has committed to c4, like 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 or 1.c4 b6 2.Nf3 (2.d4 e6 transposes to 1.d4) Bb7 3.g3 Bxf3 4.exf3.  This is known as the English Defense, which is far more sounder than Owen's Defense.

nimzovitch2013
ThrillerFan wrote:

1...b6 is an inferior move, and should only be played against 1.c4.  If White has no committed to playing c4, he can steer you into an Owen's Defense.  You might argue "but 1.b3 Black hasn't committed to 1...c5". 

In Chess, the extra tempo makes a difference, and not always for the good.  Certain Openings that Black can play, taking the extra tempo for White is not always a good thing.  Also, the misconception that you can just play the same as you would if you were Black is insanity.  A prime example is the King's Indian Defense vs the King's Indian Attack.  In the KIA, white almost never plays f4, and instead goes for h4.  In the KID, Black religiously plays ...f5, and ...h5 comes way later or not at all!

On the flip side, the extra tempo could be vital, and what works for White doesn't always work for Black.  After 1.e4 b6 2.d4 (1.d4 b6 2.e4! is the same thing) Bb7, White should not play Bd3 and c4, but instead play 3.Nc3!  White often ends up with a classical setup, and Black's play is too slow.  I've even seen a high ratio of Greek Gift Sacrifices (the Bxh7+ sacrifice that often is followed up by Ng5 and a Queen move to h5, g4, or d3) in this line.  b6 should only be played if White has committed to c4, like 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 or 1.c4 b6 2.Nf3 (2.d4 e6 transposes to 1.d4) Bb7 3.g3 Bxf3 4.exf3.  This is known as the English Defense, which is far more sounder than Owen's Defense.

I've studied 1...b6 some and it has seemed to me that 3 Bd3 is tougher to meet than 3 Nc3. Black seems to do ok enough against 3 Nc3 with 3...e6. Against 3 Bd3 I don't like ...e6 though and prefer 3...Nf6 4 Qe2 Nc6 5 c3 e5, a specialty of GM Blatny's. 

ThrillerFan

Maybe I shouldn't have said that 3.Bd3 is bad, since that's where the Bishop goes anyway in just about any line.  It's the c4 part of it you want to avoid as White

ItsEoin

I play the Scotch Gambit as White if allowed, the Rossolimo against the Sicilian, the Reti Gambit (!) against the French, the Austrian Attack against the Pirc.

The Sicilian Dragon / Scheveningen as Black, or the Modern Benoni.

Expertise87

ThrillerFan, why do you bash on so many reasonably good openings? 1...b6 is fine even if White hasn't committed himself to c4. GM Christian Bauer has quite a good book out on this defense and it shows that it is quite playable even at high levels. Certainly at your level it is no worse than any other reasonable first move, and definitely no worse than the Pribyl you swear by.

GreenLeaf14

Do you have the Sniper as a part of your repertoire?

royalbishop
GreenLeaf14 wrote:

Do you have the Sniper as a part of your repertoire?


Your opponent knows Kung Fu and you know Black Bullet. Laughing

 

 

.

TwoMove

If ThrillerFan was doing a proper simulation of a classical player, wouldn't have said 1.d4 e6 2c4 b6 was sound. To reach English defence 1.d4 e6 2c4 Bb4ch 3Nc3 b6 is the sounder move order.

GreenLeaf14

Has anyone heard about the 'Egyptian Defence'??? 

Swindlers_List

Reti
Berlin
QGA
Symmetrical English

carnivalia

Reti+Catalan with White

French vs e4

1...e6 vs d4 leaving me options to play 2...Bb4+ vs 2.c4 or for example vs 2.Nf3 transposing into dutch lines with 2...f5.

vs c4 i answer ...b6

GreenLeaf14

Against d4  i also play e6 somtimes to ente the french defence if possible...