ROT, a new opening system?

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BruiserMac

I prefer to stick to Nimzovich, Tarrasch er cetera...Cool

Stevereti

I played the hippo a few times in blitz chess-I even won once!

erik

i have great admiration for someone who is 2200, but less so for someone who has been stuck there for 25 years because they are using an opening system like this :)

gumpty
here is one of his games from this years british championships, he used ROT to beat a 2405 fide player, and the game was voted game of the day ! (ahead of many GM's) http://www.britishchess08.com/downloads/gotdall/dgt_chesstheatre.htm just click on the rd 7 sutees game :-) then tell me this guy cant play! :-)
TinLogician

Sounds like a sub-optimal idea to me. 

erik
gumpty wrote:
then tell me this guy cant play! :-)

yes, in that game black couldn't play :-)

Elubas

I don't like this. Flexibility is not worth the huge disadvantage of being way behind in development in the open game. It's the only way attacks are made! How is ROT ever supposed to do anything without the pieces developed at a reasonable time? If the game is closed it's not a huge deal but it doesn't have to be if you play like this in the opening. Huge amounts of pawn moves is what hypermodern players put extreme criticism on: The pawns can be undermined and the pusher is overextended with hideous weak squares and nothing to compensate for them. In fact the pawns will be for sure be undermined if no pieces back them up! Pieces on the back rank are just so passive, I can never imagine a knight on it's first rank attacking a king. Delaying castling? With such a passive position I would actually put more emphasis on castling since the king will not be safe in the center! Pawn moves waste time and they can be destroyed if not backed up. It is absolutely hideous.

gumpty
erik wrote:
gumpty wrote:
then tell me this guy cant play! :-)

yes, in that game black couldn't play :-)


lol erik, black was rated 2405 and was playing in a national championship game :-)
melzerh

Did you want to write this?

erik
gumpty wrote:
erik wrote:
gumpty wrote:
then tell me this guy cant play! :-)

yes, in that game black couldn't play :-)


 

lol erik, black was rated 2405 and was playing in a national championship game :-)

what is more likely - that white played amazing moves and black was just overwhelmed despite strong play, or that white played surprising but dubious moves that shocked black into psychologically crumbling and playing poor defense?

i think the strength of this system is entirely psychological, not chessical.

MainStreet

One way to settle the issue whether this ROT System works or not, is to try it out against Chess.com's "Against the Computer".

AniamL

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1493708

This is why it's unsound.  It comes with a psychological advantage, but it will lose against solid chess.

grey_pieces

It's interesting that a player who shares some of my unorthodox views on castling has achieved such a high rating. Perhaps that's something I won't need to grow out of after all.

There is probably a lot of interest in his pawn idea, but I think it is explained horribly. Certainly there is a degree of sense in pawn moves which shield the intented development of key pieces so that they can be delayed, but the *option* to castle should never be restricted - the minor pieces do not belong in their starting positions! Surely this is just a reworking of Philidors(?) "pawn's should not be obstructed" theory, classical centre theory, coupled with some hypermodern ideas.

Perhaps the writer has some difficulties expressing his system... for a start half of that thesis could have been replaced with "The concept of a strong pawn centre being desirable is a well-known part of chess theory." I'm one to talk about being verbose, but then I'm not trying to get people accredit my ROT.

I'd hate to think this guy accidentally mish-mashed a strong system together based on fundamentally non-sensical ideas like this concept that pieces should "wait" so that they aren't chased from their ideal developing squares. The moves that chase pieces also control the squares regardless of the presence of a piece in them. Commiting pieces on the back rank to defending pawns and giving your opponent greater opportunity to control your developing lines does not sound like a good combination.

I've played some successful games in the English Opening where 4 or 5 of my first 7 moves were pawn pushes. It was definitely hypermodern , and positional ideas that gave me good positions on these ones, not uber-super-extra-hypermodern ones. Where development could be assured when the piece would be needed in a square, it could be delayed so that a pawn move could be played which improved my options for verall flexible development, or reduced those of my opponent. Some aspects of staking out space with pawns, as long as the pawn structure would not become to inflexible, some of allowing my opponent to reveal a part of his plan before making any commital moves. In fact, the pawn moves were in part to goad something committal from black. The ideas have always been weaker when I have tried them in the Sicialian, with white's extra tempo being the key. I have an aggressive temperament, so more pure hypermodern ideas don't work so well for me, charging a few men up the board allows me to vent a little while I wait for the right moment.

Interesting point Erik - something must be wrong with his system, if he hasn't improved his rating in 25 years. Perhaps simply believing himself to have such a revolutionary new way has stagnated his own chess development by forcing him to stick by his words, due to a psychological refusal to adapt his game.

grey_pieces
gumpty wrote:
if some kind person could put the above games on a board for me that would be great :-) like i say i cant do it off this pc

Do it when you get home then... Or get Mike Surtees to do it!

gumpty
when i get home it will be 6.30 am, the only thing i will be doing is going to bed my freind :-)
gumpty
BTW this ISNT me trying to endorse these theorys, i just found them myself, i am just sharing them with you all because i thought it was a refreshing change and something a bit different to think about the game, like an alternative angle or whatever....i have played at a few tournys where this guy has also been playing, but i have never spoke to him, i was just interested in what people thought :-)
MainStreet

it's nice to try against chess.com's computer...

Saccadic
second_wind wrote:

So much for "COPYWRITE MIKE SURTEES ---- MARCH 2006"


rofl

gumpty
OMG, lol, go to this page....http://www.shop-hop.com/chessrot/ its a public website.
grey_pieces
gumpty wrote:
OMG, lol, go to this page....http://www.shop-hop.com/chessrot/ its a public website.

They believe you that Mike owns this copyright. I think they are laughing because you admittedly have reproduced his work without permission, copyright notice and all!!