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Scandinavian 1)e4 d5 2)e5

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Eric_Cantona

Instead of playing the usual 2)exd5, White tries e5. What, in your opinion, is the best reponse for Black? Is d4 then c5 ok?

 

 

DonnieDarko1980

As a Scandinavian player, I get this quite often and always play 2. ... c5. Depending on how White continues, I then either play e6 to transpose into a French, which is my second main answer to 1. e4, or Bf5 first to reach an improved French-like position with the bishop out.

I haven't tried 2. ... d4, but I'd guess it's not that great since it seems to weaken the center.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
The Caro-Kann player in me wants to play ...Bf5, but the really greedy Caro-Kann player in me wants to play ...Bg4 in one move after Nf3.
thelandlesslabourer

I have been playing Scandinavian for around 4 years in tournament levels. Against 2. e5, I play 2... Bf5 3. d4 e6 4. Nf3 c5 5. c3 transposing into French Defense with good Light Squared bishop for black.

Generally, 2. e5 is not played by anyone > 1600 FIDE rating in serious tournament play. 

DrSpudnik

2...c5

rocketbrainsurgeon

White gets an easy space advantage against the Scandinavian with exd5 - Nc3 - d4, so I don't know why you'd avoid it.  As a former scandi player, I can easily say e5 was welcome: you get a french defense with all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.

Eric_Cantona
rocketbrainsurgeon wrote:

White gets an easy space advantage against the Scandinavian with exd5 - Nc3 - d4, so I don't know why you'd avoid it.  As a former scandi player, I can easily say e5 was welcome: you get a french defense with all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.


LOL, im playing Black, not White ;) But anyway thanks for the comment.

NimzoRoy

2...Bf5 soon followed by ...e6 with a "good" FD Bishop IMHO, believe it or not I typed this before checking out chess.com's Game Explorer 

Database: Master GamesMy Chess GamesOther Players Games      
movegameswhite wins / draw / black wins
2...c5 37
18.9% 35.1% 45.9%
2...e6 21
47.6% 19% 33.3%
2...Bf5 9
  22.2% 77.8%
2...c6 5
20% 40% 40%
2...d4 1  Sprotte Norbert - Albrecht Rainer (1987)
2...Nf6 1  Klepaczka, T. - Igambergenov, A. (2011
Eric_Cantona

LOL, if people want to play the Caro-Kann then let them play it! Perhaps you dont like because it dosent compliment your style of play but it does to others! :)

ozzie_c_cobblepot

I don't think that the game explorer stats are to be trusted, because the players on the white side are not randomly selected.

I have an incredibly good record against this variation of the Caro-Kann

1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Ne5

But it doesn't mean that it's bad. It likely means that the players who play it against me are though.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
Note, for what it's worth, that the position for black after e4 e6 d4 d5 e5, the French Advance, is better for black than e4 c6 d4 d5 e5, the Caro-Kann Advance. Evidenced by the fact that the Caro Advance is extremely popular right now with top GMs, whereas the French Advance is not. The pertinent question for this thread is, in the French Advance, is 3...c5 stronger or is the impossible move 3...Bf5 stronger, if it were possible.
yourfutureboss

I'm pretty sure either c5 or Bf5 lead to a very nice positional setting for black.

I would prefer playing Bf5 though, but it could depend on personal style.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
Why does the Panov no longer sting? Why is the Classical nothing? And the Fantasy, well about the only thing GM Speelman said about it was that black is okay, as long as he doesn't try to refute it directly via the ...e5 line. So while I know that the advance is popular, is it because the others are equal or is it because the Advance is less trodden, and therefore more rich?
RoffleMyWafflez
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Why does the Panov no longer sting? Why is the Classical nothing? And the Fantasy, well about the only thing GM Speelman said about it was that black is okay, as long as he doesn't try to refute it directly via the ...e5 line. So while I know that the advance is popular, is it because the others are equal or is it because the Advance is less trodden, and therefore more rich?



He's full of crap.  The classical is fine for white.  I know little to nothing about the Panov and the Fantasy, but they both look like fun alternatives to the popular lines.

Michael-G

Everything is a matter of taste.Anyone that have studied and played French for many years knows that the "bad bishop" is actually a myth(Psakhis and Moskalenko also say that on their books).There is no "bad bishop" there are only bad moves that may create a bad position in which a superficial evaluation will make you believe that it's bad because the bishop is bad.The bishop on c8 and on d7 later does exactly what he must do, protects e6 until black is ready to play e5.A bad piece is bad only if the rest of the pieces are uncoordinated and bad positioned which is not the issue in French if you know what to do.I have played French defense for years , and I never lost because of the "bad bishop" , most of the times I lose because of the "good bishop".

   So the real question is what do you like.It's a fact that although the pawn structure is the same Caro Kan advance and French advance are very different.So it's only a matter of what positions you like.It's impossible to answer the "what is better" question.

RoffleMyWafflez
Michael-G wrote:

So it's only a matter of what positions you like.It's impossible to answer the "what is better" question.


For now.  But chess WILL be solved eventually, just as checkers is now.

waffllemaster

I play the center counter online and always go 2...Bf5.  Some white players don't know what they're getting into and very quickly their d4 pawn (when they push it there) becomes a positional embarrassment for them.

Those that know how to play it can play it, but black has a very comfortable game with no problems.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
waffllemaster wrote:

I play the center counter online and always go 2...Bf5.  Some white players don't know what they're getting into and very quickly their d4 pawn (when they push it there) becomes a positional embarrassment for them.

Those that know how to play it can play it, but black has a very comfortable game with no problems.


Do you mean 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Bf5?

What are the types of things which white typically does against which black has "no problems"? Because this doesn't look good for black at all, to me.

What do you think would be the critical line for white to play?

If I totally misunderstood your comment, my apologies in advance! :-)

RoffleMyWafflez

A database, huh?

waffllemaster

I thought you guys were still talking about the line in the title: 1.e4 d5 2.e5 , this is where I play 2...Bf5 Tongue out